SS FM Book and pins

[Jay Gillespie]

Values

Let me just add a comment to Ray's back to Herr Frick. Value is a perception that is determined by two arms- length parties: one who wants to sell and one who wants to buy. But I think you might consider the item characteristics as part of that perception. Let's assume that I have a load pf alpha character A SS FM normal pins and an equal load with the letter C, D and E. In one of my prior posting I noted that I don't have one with a letter B, F, G or I. If you had a B and offered it to me, would that new addition be "worth" more to me? It just might well be the case. By the same token if you had the B and didn't really know much about them, would you consider selling it at a price less than what I might perceive as its value to me making it a "bargain?" In some obtuse way it "could" be similar to collecting SA daggers or SS daggers with different maker marks. Once the universe of maker marks has been determined (and in daggers that's pretty well the case) the rarity of some makers can be viewed an a price enhancement to those who want to "fill a hole" in their collection. Deschler made the SS FM pins so that is a known constant. To merely say that this line of reasoning is flawed either by a dealer or collector who has an agenda is a bit shortsighted. There's always a limit that someone will pay as well as a limit that someone will sell. If they don't agree, there's no sale.

I would of course always agree that there are some who for whatever reason "seem" to charge more. That's their choice. But in a negotiated sale market, it is the negotiation that will ultimately determine whether a sale is consumated or not.

Now I will add that personally, I don't believe there is an SS FM pin worth $ 500-- at least not today. And the membership books, which seem to be rarer than the pins, will continue to bring what they bring.

[Henri S]

Hello,
This is a nice long item about SS-FM pins and SS-Ehren pins.
I have a question.
Are some SS-FM pins made with a red copper base or are all these pins made with a base of silvernickle alloy?
ben baars

Ben

Here is an ss fm pin I had that might have been ground dug and looks like it is made with a red copper base

[ben baars]

Ben

Here is an ss fm pin I had that might have been ground dug and looks like it is made with a red copper base

Thank you for posting your picture; no doubt it is red copper!
So I can presume, the silverfinish is done after the mil engraving on the back (?). Else you would see there coppertraces.Or are are the letters and numbers stamped before the enamelling? You see more questions.

Perhaps are a number of these nice badges made of a silver alloy? I've seen in this forum Don Scowen' s SS FM badge with a renewed number.
Don can you traces of copper or copper oxide ?

Thanks again Henri,
Cheers,
ben

[Herr_Flick]

To merely say that this line of reasoning is flawed either by a dealer or collector who has an agenda is a bit shortsighted.

Well Mr. Gollespie I admit that "hidden agenda" might have been a too strong word to use. Now this hobby...or should I say collectors society is part collectors and part dealers - if this jibberish haven't come from the collectors society...where then? ...From Donald Duck in Disney Land?

In some obtuse way it "could" be similar to collecting SA daggers or SS daggers with different maker marks.

Now this is exactly what it can't be taken similar to - far beoynd! These pins are made by Deschler as we all know - one maker only on these pins! When collecting by makers mark You don't just collect the makers mark but the manufactorors "finger prints" of their version as well as variation of the speciment, why this is totally impossible to make a comparence towards.

The only thing that would make sence and is valid in a different pricing towards the regular SS-FM pins are stickpin vs. pin back/broach type...as to their different setup - like EK1 with pin back vs. EK1 with screw back (wich also is known practice on the two types of SS-FM pins) - but that is as far as it stretches!

Now if this mad pricing issue indeed becomes a trend towards the single letter on the SS-FM pin next we will see different prices on injection molded unmarked IAB's from Assmann as they have the number range from 1 to 4 on them depending wich mold they came from. No matter what, they are still the same badge from the same manufactoror with the same setup...just as with the good ol' SS-FM pin! But so be it...before we know it this will turn the hobby into a collectors nightmare! And if that will be the case I'd rather go to Toy's R Us and buy the Alphabet!

Now if ? suddenly without any reason should raise the price on some of these pins with scarcer letter and dump the prices on the more common ones what would happen then. People who have bought the common lettered pins will suddenly loose money towards what they have paid if bought at a dealer, as they do not take the this letter into consideration when selling these pins - such as Detlev Niemann's practice is (correct me if I'm wrong please) ...the same of course goes if pin is bought "privately". And those who have the scarcer letter pins will have their collection raise in value...that's nice - huh! That is simply not right nor fair!

Since somebody have had to come up with this nonsence recently, I really hope that he/she/or them quickly forget about it again. Roumors goes fast and before You know it has become a trend - and for no valid reason. Such can destroy alot for collectors of these pins...or books for that matter if they suddenly gain the double in price over nights. Just imagine if You before were able to by 6 SS-FM booklets a year (if You could find so many) - now You only could afford 3 pieces. And since I belive this is a "roumor thing" (anything else doesn't make sence to me) I wonder how many newbie collectors with insufficiant knowledge towards the values of these things have been caught in this game recently paying over price for their things.

Though this is quite sad it actually makes me laugh...all the fuzz about a single letter suddenly being very important towards a guideline for determinating the pins value - when all pins are the very same...except the single letter wich nobody really knows what means anyway...really If the day comes where light will be shed towards the meaning of these letters - and if the meaning proves to be important and very different depending on wich letter it is...then a difference in price is plausible - not before in my oppinion!


Cheers,
Carsten

[Jay Gillespie]

Context

I am amazed that someone can read a posting, focus on one or two sentances, take them out of contaxt, and miss the entire thrust of the thought process in the entire posting as well as previous postings.

Like buyers and sellers agreeing on a mutually acceptable price, we all have differences of opinions. But please, let's make sure we label them as such.

Stickpin versus spring catch pin; bent pin verus straight pin; pin with a nice slip catch on it versus one with none; low numbers versus high numbers; letter coded or no letter code; enamel cracked versus no crack; nicely aged and toned versus nicelt cleaned and silver; real versus fake-- all the nuances (real and perceived) that make up a piece of any type contribute to the final assessment of the item's worth. And it is only worth what someone will pay.

If this is my business and the way I earn my living (which it isn't) then I "may" have costs of doing business that others do not. So "maybe" (just remember that most of my posts contain such words bracketed by parentheses to call attention to the particular use of that word) a dealer who is "in the business" has to charge more and make enough money in the business to survive. And surprisingly it is quite often those same "dealers" who have access to the collectors, heirs, family members, and survivors that have the item the rest of the collecting community seeks. Maybe that's also worth something.

Some of my closest friends are dealers. And yes, they have to make money. But that doesn't stand in the way of being honorable, intelligent, influential, and informed individuals who value their associates. But of course the rest.............................................. .....