Help, SA, HJ Shirt.

[Nick B]

Hi

I have a SA brown shirt that has been messed with at some point in its history, It has evidence of having a epaulette on the left hand side (when looking front on) But none on the right. At the time this was removed it looks as though the collar tabs and armband were added. This was all done with the same black thread. The armband was added by unpicking the sleeve and sewing it into the shirt (really messy job they cant have been a tailor). I am unsure if the buttons have all been replaced, I know some have, I have been unable to confirm this but looking at pictures buttons on SA shirts seem to be added through a internal button hole and tied/held in place on the back? On this shirt they are just sewn over these holes. The Label has gone and all that is left is a white patch,
I know the good idea would have been to not buy this shirt. But I have had it for about 2 years now and have been thinking what to do with this. Hence this long post.
I was tempted to remove the insignia and repair the bad job on the sleeve, I could then restore this to a SA or HJ shirt (the reason I say HJ it seems like a reasonably small shirt)
Also if people would be able to give me their opinions on the collar tabs and armband.

Thanks for advice/help

Regards

Nick

[Nick B]

Sleeve damage

[Nick B]

Collar

[Nick B]

Collar Tab

[Nick B]

Armband Overview

[Nick B]

Armband detail

[Nick B]

Label inside shirt, Well whats left of it.

[Nick B]

Size stamping in collar.

[Nick B]

Inside shirt. Last pic, Thanks for looking.

[Nick B]

I know this is a bit of an odd one.
What do people think of the collar insignia and the armband?
Is this a SA or HJ shirt?
Is it worth removing the insignia? Seeing it looks added post (and fixing the damage)

Any advice would be appreciated.
Cheers
Nick

[Bob Coleman]

Nick-
Nothing is original to this shirt, including the buttons. The brownshirts would have removable metal buttons. The armband should be cotton, not wool. The collar tabs appear to be reproduction. Does the shirt have a RZM tag? It could e SA, NSKK, NSFK, NSDAP, NSBO, DAF, or HJ. All of these organizations wore a form of the brown shirt.
Bob

[Nick B]

Hi thanks for your reply. I was pretty sure things were not original to the shirt. and as I mentioned in my 1st post I thought the SA ones had buttons with rings on the back but was unable to confirm this (thanks for confirming). The botch job on the added insigna really did make me wonder what the person was up to but wanted to know if the insigina was real (thanks for letting me know about the collar tabs)
The only tags it has are the ones showing, I can only assume the what remains of the tag was the rzm.

Thanks for you help.

[Paul70]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't SA shirts have piping around the collar?

If it is HJ look for damage of a removed district triangle on left sleeve.
How about shoulder boards? any evidence of buttons or sew marks (SA had one board, HJ two)

I remember in about 1991-92 a whole bunch of stripped brownshirts showed up they even had the hooks removed. It was amazing the botched repair jobs that were around soon after. Most thought they were HJ due to small size. I bought a stripped NSKK one (Black piping around collar; size very small) that a dealer swore was HJ, luckly he never put anything on it. Picked it up for $40.00, rebuilt it correctly.

By the way I still need a small smooth nickeled shoulder board button for it.

Paul