3 x HJ-Leistungsabzeichen

[torstenbel]

Hi there, I have got three HJ Leistungsabzeichen and I have a number of questions about them:

a) are they original... I think they are...
b) I am a little confused about the colours. Would the first one be a black one and the other two silver? I have no other colour photos to compare with...
c) What were the requirements for achieving the three different levels?
d) Why has the first one got wavy lines through the award number?
e) Why has the RZM logo on the first and third one not got the outer circle?

Sorry about all these 'silly' questions and thank you very much in advance for looking and for your answers and opinions. Cheers, Torsten.

[torstenbel]

ssm8 - 2

Hi there, I have got three HJ Leistungsabzeichen and I have a number of questions about them:

a) are they original... I think they are...
b) I am a little confused about the colours. Would the first one be a black one and the other two silver? I have no other colour photos to compare with...
c) What were the requirements for achieving the three different levels?
d) Why has the first one got wavy lines through the award number?
e) Why has the RZM logo on the first and third one not got the outer circle?

Sorry about all these 'silly' questions and thank you very much in advance for looking and for your answers and opinions. Cheers, Torsten.

[torstenbel]

ssm8 - 3

Hi there, I have got three HJ Leistungsabzeichen and I have a number of questions about them:

a) are they original... I think they are...
b) I am a little confused about the colours. Would the first one be a black one and the other two silver? I have no other colour photos to compare with...
c) What were the requirements for achieving the three different levels?
d) Why has the first one got wavy lines through the award number?
e) Why has the RZM logo on the first and third one not got the outer circle?

Sorry about all these 'silly' questions and thank you very much in advance for looking and for your answers and opinions. Cheers, Torsten.

[torstenbel]

ssm9 - front

Hi there, I have got three HJ Leistungsabzeichen and I have a number of questions about them:

a) are they original... I think they are...
b) I am a little confused about the colours. Would the first one be a black one and the other two silver? I have no other colour photos to compare with...
c) What were the requirements for achieving the three different levels?
d) Why has the first one got wavy lines through the award number?
e) Why has the RZM logo on the first and third one not got the outer circle?

Sorry about all these 'silly' questions and thank you very much in advance for looking and for your answers and opinions. Cheers, Torsten.

[torstenbel]

ssm9 - back

Hi there, I have got three HJ Leistungsabzeichen and I have a number of questions about them:

a) are they original... I think they are...
b) I am a little confused about the colours. Would the first one be a black one and the other two silver? I have no other colour photos to compare with...
c) What were the requirements for achieving the three different levels?
d) Why has the first one got wavy lines through the award number?
e) Why has the RZM logo on the first and third one not got the outer circle?

Sorry about all these 'silly' questions and thank you very much in advance for looking and for your answers and opinions. Cheers, Torsten.

[torstenbel]

ssm10 - front

Hi there, I have got three HJ Leistungsabzeichen and I have a number of questions about them:

a) are they original... I think they are...
b) I am a little confused about the colours. Would the first one be a black one and the other two silver? I have no other colour photos to compare with...
c) What were the requirements for achieving the three different levels?
d) Why has the first one got wavy lines through the award number?
e) Why has the RZM logo on the first and third one not got the outer circle?

Sorry about all these 'silly' questions and thank you very much in advance for looking and for your answers and opinions. Cheers, Torsten.

[torstenbel]

ssm10 - back

Hi there, I have got three HJ Leistungsabzeichen and I have a number of questions about them:

a) are they original... I think they are...
b) I am a little confused about the colours. Would the first one be a black one and the other two silver? I have no other colour photos to compare with...
c) What were the requirements for achieving the three different levels?
d) Why has the first one got wavy lines through the award number?
e) Why has the RZM logo on the first and third one not got the outer circle?

Sorry about all these 'silly' questions and thank you very much in advance for looking and for your answers and opinions. Cheers, Torsten.

[sjl]

The RZM mark ("Schutzeichen") was perfectly acceptable with or without the outer ring, and varied by manufacturer.

[torstenbel]

The RZM mark ("Schutzeichen") was perfectly acceptable with or without the outer ring, and varied by manufacturer.

Stephen, thank you...I am also of that opinion, but I am sure that I have read somewhere, that the missing circle on the RZM logo is a sure sign of an item being repro...and that it should never appear on original metal items or paper tags... Cheers, Torsten.

[sjl]

The source of the misconception is generally Robin Lumsden's book "Detecting the Fakes", where he said that a missing outer ring was a fake RZM mark. He has since updated his earlier opinion based on more recent research and now accepts that it is a valid RZM mark. He and I have had a very helpful correspondence on the subject.

The same with the issue of the "crossed Z" in the logo - perfectly valid with or without.

[torstenbel]

The source of the misconception is generally Robin Lumsden's book "Detecting the Fakes", where he said that a missing outer ring was a fake RZM mark. He has since updated his earlier opinion based on more recent research and now accepts that it is a valid RZM mark. He and I have had a very helpful correspondence on the subject.

The same with the issue of the "crossed Z" in the logo - perfectly valid with or without.

Stephen, yes that is the source that I recited...I respect Robin tremendously and so did not want to mention his name...looks like, I have to get a more uptodate edition of his book... Cheers, Torsten.

[Ron Weinand]

Your first rune was a bronze that has faded. You can tell this by the color of the pin and mounting.

Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

[torstenbel]

Your first rune was a bronze that has faded. You can tell this by the color of the pin and mounting.

Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

Hi Ron, thank you very much. I did not realise that the pins matched the award colour...would you know why the membership number has the weavy lines through it? Cheers, Torsten.