Kaiser Wilhelm Institute- Senator Badge

[Volksturmer]

Here is an obscure badge I’ve just been made aware of.
I hope some of you are as intrigued by this as I am.
Does anyone else have one of these badges, or perhaps the ribbon to it?
Or any more info on it? It’s cool, at any rate!

J

[HPL2008]

The first one is the Mitgliedsabzeichen [Members' Badge]; the second one (with the full wreath) is the Senatorenabzeichen [Senators' Badge]. There were also an Ehrenabzeichen [Badge of Honor] (silver) and a Verdienstabzeichen [Badge of Merit] (bronze, no laurel leaves). The President of the KWG wore an Amtskette [Chain of Office].) The ribbons for all categories of the badge were green with narrow gold and yellow borders.

For more information (including pictures of the ribbon), see:

https://gmic.co.uk/topic/3813-kaiser...on-of-science/
https://ordensmuseum.de/historische-...-gesellschaft/ (German)
https://www.ehrenzeichen-orden.de/we...nschaften.html (German)
https://www.ehrenzeichen-orden.de/we...haft-1927.html (German)

[Volksturmer]

Wow,

excellent information! Thank you so much for this response!

John

[Duzig]

That's a beautiful badge. Never seen one before.
Duzig(Bill)

[Reinhard2]

But there was no swastika fixed on it ! If you have a look on the back of the one with, you can see that it is a cut needle which was soldered on it to increase the price.

[Br. James]

Thanks for sharing this interesting piece...or pieces, John, and no, I've never seen the like before. Did these pieces come into your collection, or have you just found photos of them? Glad to have the additional details via the links provided by HPL2008.

That said, I wonder whether the Kaiser Wilhelm Society for Science continued into the TR era or, as Garrit suggests, perhaps this piece with the swastika is a post-war mock-up created for sales purposes?

Br. James

[HPL2008]

That said, I wonder whether the Kaiser Wilhelm Society for Science continued into the TR era or, as Garrit suggests, perhaps this piece with the swastika is a post-war mock-up created for sales purposes?

The KWG existed throughout the Third Reich and beyond; it was only disbanded in 1960.

(But whether it nazified its insignia or the above is a fantasy embellishment, I don't know.)

[Volksturmer]

Hi guys,

thanks for the wonderful responses. James, these two awards aren’t mine, but a friend’s; he knows I am interested in items not often seen, and rarities, and from time to time he sends me pictures of such from his collection, which encompasses a wide range of various periods, as early as the 1700’s.

Thanks to HPL2008 for the wonderful threads and info!

These have been incredibly informative. The ribbons missing from my friends two badges have now been identified.

I’m glad to bring this item to the attention of collectors. Approve of it or not, we now know that this specimen with an added swastika exists.

I won’t go into the membership badge, as it didn’t generate the same level of interest.

Here are some pictures of the badge with a swastika with its case with the name of the jeweler, who I believe altered a standard badge to add a swastika, since the original authorized maker was Hemmerle. Again, this is IMO only. Note the recessed area in the case for the missing ribbon!

The standard badge’s production, thanks to a Thread HPL2008 posted, we now know was Extremely tightly controlled, the die under lock and key to one man, literally, who would apparently give it to the Jeweler named Hemmerle, to have it made for awardees, as needed.

Thanks to HPL2008’s posts of links, we know that from 1911-1945 there were only approximately 125 awarded Senator badges from 1911 - 1945, so this is an extremely rare item with or without a Swastika. 125 maximum Is truly extremely rare. 3.5 awards per year.

That’s why IMO only, to add a swastika to this badge, is gilding the lily, so to speak. In other words, unnecessarily trying to make an extremely rare item more extremely rare. This award has been in private hands for a long time, many years, in fact. So it hasn’t been floating around on the market trying to trick people.

Upon further inquiry, I learned that the Swaz-altered Senator badge came from the estate of Ernst Rudin, along with his 1944 Adler Shield. By the way, his Adler Shield is actually shown in Angolia’s FuF, Civil awards.

Since Rudin was a member, but Not (apparently), a senator of the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute, we have an item that is a historical puzzle.

We can look at the other awards of this gentleman named Ernst Rudin: the Goethe medal for Arts and Sciences (1939); and the Adler Shield, which is in Angolia’s fur FuF, Civil Awards book.

Rudin was highly regarded in the TR period. I won’t go into details, because Rudin’s background and fame as a scientist gets into racial genetic science, etc., understandably a very sensitive subject today.

The Planck society (the new name chosen long ago for the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute) is understandably very closemouthed on the subject of Rudin and perhaps very rightfully so.

So, that’s all I have. These are my opinions only! I’m happy that other collectors, like me, get to see a rarity that they ordinarily wouldn’t ever see. Whether period or not, I cannot 100% say. IMO Only, I personally give it a huge chance of being period. But of course, it doesn’t matter what I think!

Thanks
John

[Br. James]

While HPL2008 kindly showed us how the ribbon was fitted to the badge of the earlier generation of this award, I can't see how a ribbon...or any other suspension system...was fitted to the badge with the swastika. And further, as I look at the case in these latest photos, my inability to fathom how a ribbon was fitted to the later piece is not helped! Could the case we see in the photos with the swastika badge perhaps not be from this award?

Br. James

[Volksturmer]

James,

Thank you so much, my friend, for your astute reply. When you brought up your question - basically, how the heck was a ribbon affixed to this Senator Badge with a Swaz, and why does the case look as it does - I was puzzled too. Why does the case look like that?
But I think your question helps support the argument for the originality of this wonderful piece.

Thanks to one of the threads links that HPL2008 so generously provided, and which have shed so much light on this subject, we see that this Senator’s Badge - or Senatorenabzeichen, was a neck order.
And - that explains how a ribbon was attached, and the shape of the case, very nicely!

I contacted my friend, the owner of this rarity, and he made me a photo - and please note everyone, this is just a theoretical illustration of how the complete neck order with hanger would look in its case. And he made this photo, by using the simple expedient of adding a hanger for a neck award to the set-up. And I must say, it was very clear as soon as I saw the photo, that a hanger for a neck order goes in the indentation between the recessed area for the badge, and the recessed area for the ribbon above!

That is again, IMO only. But it is such a nice and rare piece, I’m glad that folks can have a look at it. It also shines a light on the whole Kaiser Wilhelm Institute, and how truly unique and extremely rare these awards are. Many Nobel Prize Laureates held these awards. You can’t get much more prestigious than that!

John

[Volksturmer]

Damn - getting this

• Invalid SQL: SELECT `cacheid` FROM cacheevent WHERE `event` IN ('nodeChg_11701229','nodeChg_11690191','nodeChg_37 ','nodeChg_14','nodeChg_2','nodeChg_1'

[Volksturmer]

Every time I try to post my picture, I get this error:

• Invalid SQL: SELECT `cacheid` FROM cacheevent WHERE `event` IN ('nodeChg_11701229','nodeChg_11690191','nodeChg_37 ','nodeChg_14','nodeChg_2','nodeChg_1'

[Br. James]

Yep, I see your point, John...several times over! A photo of the reverse of how this neck ribbon hanger would attach to the badge would be helpful.

Many thanks, my friend,

Br. James

[Volksturmer]

James,
thanks my friend!
yep, it kept giving me an error last night for an hour and a half - the text posted, but the photos wouldn’t.
This morning all my attempts from last night paid off, apparently, like a slot machine, making me look like a Xerox machine on steroids!

Strangely, depending on where you log in from, some folks can’t see the photos! Yikes.
I think they are working on this as I type - in fact I know it.

We will get there, WAFers!

John

[HPL2008]

Coincidentally, I just noticed that one specimen for each category (Senatorenabzeichen, Mitgliedsabzeichen, Ehrenabzeichen and Verdienstabzeichen) will be for sale on Künker's next auction:

https://elive-auction.de/auktionen/8...ion_section=10