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    #1

    Help with enamel Adolf Hitler badge please

    Hi guy's,

    Would you be so kind as to give me your thoughts on this badge, I'm still unsure of it and have always considered it fake, some say it's ok others, no.

    The only reference I have to these little badges and markings is Robin Lumsden's book on 'fakes', is this RZM a noted fake ? I have a Germany Awake 1933, one exactly the same.

    Comparing them to my genuine party badge they are inferior that is just in quality and are not as smooth by any means on the upper surface. Also the pin plate differs and it also dosen't have Ges. Gesch, and the RZM marking has a line through the Z.

    Any thoughts please.


    Thank you for looking,

    Marcus
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    #2
    Reverse
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      #3
      Close up of RZM
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        #4
        Hello matey
        the RZM logo looks weird (circles off-centre?) but I think the question is whether such a badge should have an RZM logo at all....many will argue that it should not. J.R.Cone has one WITHOUT the RZM logo....RZM marks are supposed to have appeared officially in 1934/1935 and this is supposed to be a supporter's badge before AH came to power, not exactly an official NSDAP item I guess....
        Last edited by TerryG; 05-09-2005, 01:38 PM.

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          #5
          Marcus.

          I'm the first to admit I gave out some duff gen regarding RZM marks back in the stone-age (1988) when I didn't know any better.

          However, I don't like that badge because:

          *The RZM mark is 'odd' (not necessarily crucial in its own right);
          *This particular badge pre-dated the use of the RZM mark;
          *The RZM mark should be accompanied by a number (eg '17'), even on the early pre-'M1' etc. versions;
          *It looks like it isn't plated tombak, which these should be;
          *For the 'GesGesch' to make any sense, there should be some form of maker identification, ie a name or RZM number.

          Comment

            #6
            I agree with Robin for all of his reasons on this badge. The only unquestionably genuine ones I've seen have been either blank reverse or included a maker's name and no RZM logo ("Schutzzeichen").

            And if Robin's early work was mistaken about some RZM marks, it would be only one small drop in an otherwise large barrel of excellent information he has provided, and the rest of us collectors continue to be grateful for.

            Comment

              #7
              Stephen.

              Comments like yours are appreciated. Really and truly, they are.

              Comment

                #8
                One more point to make here mr lumsden!
                It was your little books that turned my interest into the obsession it has become today! you also showed a good price guide which helped me justify with my girlfriend the prices i was paying!
                cheers mate

                Comment

                  #9
                  Thank you all very much, and cheers Robin......let me see now I do believe I have a couple of your books to hand


                  The thing is we're learning everyday, and in the pre forum and internet days these were the bibles.....times have changed and so does availability to information, that's the way it goes. It's very easy for collectors of today to knock the books of past, and thats wrong in my opinion.

                  All these books were and still remain constructive in the curve of the hobby learning.

                  I know for a fact most of us collectors use them and the Angolia & Ailsby books too. I do.

                  Kr

                  Marcus
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                    #10
                    Gentlemen,

                    This is a question that has long excercised my tiny brain. When I first began collecting over 30 years ago now I too was told that badges with these reverse marks were bad and indeed in the mid to late 1960's you could readily them in all varients. They were made from very light silver alloy and I still have couple of examples in my Black Museum".

                    However, since then I have seen a couple of vet bring back belts with these very badges pinned to them. Every badge genuine and clearly been on that belt for 60+ years; I was lucky to buy a small grouping from an SA member which included his Party badge - marked RZM / Ges. Gesch.; on dealers listings (including the very admirable Neimann and M & T Militaria) badges with these same reverse markings; I have seen what are in opinion genuine badges only marked Ges. Gesch.
                    Just my experiences - - hoping that others will contribute theirs too.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Originally posted by DanCz
                      Gentlemen,

                      This is a question that has long excercised my tiny brain. When I first began collecting over 30 years ago now I too was told that badges with these reverse marks were bad and indeed in the mid to late 1960's you could readily them in all varients. They were made from very light silver alloy and I still have couple of examples in my Black Museum".

                      However, since then I have seen a couple of vet bring back belts with these very badges pinned to them. Every badge genuine and clearly been on that belt for 60+ years; I was lucky to buy a small grouping from an SA member which included his Party badge - marked RZM / Ges. Gesch.; on dealers listings (including the very admirable Neimann and M & T Militaria) badges with these same reverse markings; I have seen what are in opinion genuine badges only marked Ges. Gesch.
                      Just my experiences - - hoping that others will contribute theirs too.
                      Here is my NSDAP pin marked only RZM & Ges. Gesch.
                      Attached Files

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                        #12
                        I believe it to be genuine.
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                          #13
                          Hi Curt,



                          Your badge looks just like the the two I question, front and back ? On purported genuine examples I own of this nature of badge, the plate and pin attachment is different, as does differ the smoothness of the obverse ???

                          I don't know, and I can't declare right or wrong


                          I guess back in the draw, until another day for me on these.

                          Kr

                          Marcus

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