Should RZM marks and manufacturer codes appear in the same place everytime on all NSD

[akriener]

I'm looking at purchasing some of the above pins private party from people on and off these forums and when comparing the images the sellers sent me, the placements and fonts of said markings did not match other examples from the same manufacturers on retailers such as Lakeside Traders (to name one). Should this be of concern or is this variation normal? I thought they would all be consistent being machine stamped. The pin style and pin attachment seem correct however. Will provide photos if requested.


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[sjl]

Not necessarily. Dies wore out and were replaced for common or large-run insignia. The RZM mark and license number placement could move with a new die.

[akriener]

Not necessarily. Dies wore out and were replaced for common or large-run insignia. The RZM mark and license number placement could move with a new die.

Ok. The only thing that struck me as odd was when I brought up the discrepancy and instead of offering an explanation as you did I was sent another piece to look at. The M1/44 I was offered is priced at $100 and the M1/42 in original cellophane package is priced at $125. Even though the M1/44 is from a more rare manufacturer, not sure how I feel about the scratches on the right side for that price. Please review these examples from seller and compare with these retailers.

RZM M1/44:
https://stewartsmilitaryantiques.com...52.archive.htm
https://www.lakesidetrader.com/item.php?ID=21541

RZM M1/42:
https://www.1944militaria.com/product_p/ornspin2.htm
https://www.aboutww2militaria.com/m1...nd-israel.html
https://www.aboutww2militaria.com/na...-m142-rzm.html
https://www.originalgermanmilitaria....y-rzm-m1-42-2/

[sjl]

They both look like good badges to me. The single-circle RZM in cellophane appears to be an older badge from the early days of the RZM (1934-35) when there was more variation in the RZM logo (Schutzzeichen). The one with the double circle RZM logo is likely a later badge or from a manufacturer who used the double-circle logo from the start.

With two different manufacturers, the RZM logo and license M number could appear anywhere. There was little direction (especially early on) about placement. They could appear on the same line, top & bottom, side, or wherever the manufacturer could fit them.

[akriener]

They both look like good badges to me. The single-circle RZM in cellophane appears to be an older badge from the early days of the RZM (1934-35) when there was more variation in the RZM logo (Schutzzeichen). The one with the double circle RZM logo is likely a later badge or from a manufacturer who used the double-circle logo from the start.

With two different manufacturers, the RZM logo and license M number could appear anywhere. There was little direction (especially early on) about placement. They could appear on the same line, top & bottom, side, or wherever the manufacturer could fit them.

That makes sense then. I'm trying to get ahold of that RZM Marks of the NSDAP book by Stephen Lautens.

That aside, do you think the pricing is fair given the condition? I'm not much of a manufacturer or packaging snob (at this point) but my understanding is the 44 is not as often seen. Just don't like the scratching, but this is a 75 year old pin.

[Br. James]

"I'm trying to get ahold of that RZM Marks of the NSDAP book by Stephen Lautens."

This is news to me -- and good news, too! I didn't know Stephen published a book on RZM marks! Do say more!

Br. James

[akriener]

"I'm trying to get ahold of that RZM Marks of the NSDAP book by Stephen Lautens."

This is news to me -- and good news, too! I didn't know Stephen published a book on RZM marks! Do say more!

Br. James

He is actually SJL from above! Though it sounds like you may know that already haha. He PM'd me said said the book is no longer in print, but is searching for an on demand print service. He also says it's about 15 years old so needs some updating. Here's a good example of one: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...-rzm-marks-o-t

Stephen we all would love some color photos if you re-work this item!

[sjl]

Thanks for the encouragement. I'll definitely consider an update to my RZM book. Lots of new information out there now.


As for prices, those seem to be dealer prices for NSDAP pins these days, give or take.