Hi all, is this nsdap brownshirt original? Thanks!!
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Anyone think it's original?
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Original 1939 pattern.
ErichFestina lente!Comment
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I agree with Erich, though some or perhaps all of the buttons may be replacements -- the bottom button, located behind the belt buckle, was originally plastic, in order to prevent scratching the metal surface of the button. The top (neck) button was also plastic, though we can't see what is here on this piece from the photos.
Br. JamesComment
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Erich could you please explain the difference between an earlier Brownshirt and this '1939 Pattern'? I am recently interested in the SA and would like to obtain a Brownshirt but have no good references. Thank you.
Originally posted by Erich B. View PostComment
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Sure Tony--the 1939 pattern was not worn by the SA but only by Political Leaders. Initially SA, SS, NSKK, NSFK, PL, etc. wore the same pattern brownshirt although the PLs shirt was more of a golden tan and the SA/SS was an almost medium red brown color. Despite the use of 'Indanthren' dyes (which were supposed to be less prone to fading from washing and sunlight), the SA/SS shirts did fade to a lighter color but still different then the color of PL shirts. The older RZM pattern shirts called for metal belt hooks at the bottom edge which kept the shirt from riding up and supported the belt, dagger, sidearm, etc. The 39 pattern for PLs introduced the cloth belt loops to hold the belt, elastic tabs with button holes that would attach to corresponding buttons sewn along the upper edge of the PL breeches, and a collar liner that was buttoned in. The fabric blend also changed for both PLs and SA/SS etc. with more rayon and less cotton although I don't remember if the fabric change was at the same time.
ErichFestina lente!Comment
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Brilliant! Thank you. Trying to learn as much as I can as I look for an early Brownshirt. That was very helpful thank you.Comment
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Thanks a lot Erich for this awesome post! Now I finally understand what those elastic pieces on the inside of the shirt are. One question though - what exactly are their function? Was it to keep the shirt down in place of the older model belt hooks?Originally posted by Erich B. View Post
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"the 1939 pattern was not worn by the SA but only by Political Leaders."
A VERY helpful post, Erich -- many thanks! If I may, your post brings one question to mind: Why did the PL version of the Traditions Brownshirt continue to be worn while the other versions -- SA, SS, etc. -- ceased wear? As I understand it, by 1939 all of the organizations had instituted a tunic version of dress, as did the PL...
Br. JamesComment
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The brownshirt was worn as the SA's 'Großer Dienstanzug' as depicted even in the 1943 Org. Buch. While most of the other NSDAP organizations had changed to the visor cap, the SA retained its kepi. My guess is that because the brown shirt and kepi were the iconic emblems of the SA from the early days, their wear was considered the traditional dress of the SA.
ErichFestina lente!Comment
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The brownshirt really wasn't a very practical garment, being only waist length. The elastic pieces, when buttoned to the breeches, would keep the shirt from riding up when giving the 'Hitler Gruß' for example, so allowed a neater appearance. I've seen many pairs of PL breeches where there are 2 sets of buttons sewn to the waistband--one set for suspenders and a smaller set for the elastic tabs.Originally posted by ant888nsmb2 View Post
ErichFestina lente!Comment
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Thanks, Erich -- I see what I misunderstood in the earlier posts. What's being described here is "the 1939 issue" Traditions Brownshirt, not the Traditions Brownshirt in general. Just as you say, the "Organisations Buch" of 1943 confirms that the Traditions Brownshirt was still being worn by the PL, SA, SS, NSKK and the NSFK, but apparently only the PL version included the new revisions, such as the cloth belt retainers.
Very helpful.
Br. JamesComment
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There were constant problems with getting the color right. Especially for PL this was a bigger problem in 1939/1940.Originally posted by Erich B. View Post
This is what they noted in the RZM periodical.Comment
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So does this mean there were varying colors in '39 PL shirts?Originally posted by wilhelm Saris View Post
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There were problems with the colors of all of the brown shirts, not only the 39 pattern. The RZM instructions listed the mixture of dyes and salts but no two dye lots ever came out exactly the same. After laundering, the shirts would fade to slightly different degrees, and today, with age and storage differences, it's rare to find 2 shirts that are exactly the same color. It's the case today as well--if you're buying paint for a room or fabric for tailoring/dressmaking, it's always recommended to buy all of your materials from the same dye lot as otherwise the lots won't match exactly.
ErichFestina lente!Comment
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