Rzm eagle ?

[upbeek]

Gentlemen
Thoughts on this one please
Chay

[John T]

It looks to be a cupal example with an honest patina. The base plates to the pins seem a little wide but I think that can be attributed to the maker. I do not see any issues that stand out that would cause me to dismiss this one.

[upbeek]

Thanks John,
I suspected it was a good one but is it a political cap badge ?
Chay

[GAMS1]

Original political type . One of the existing pins variations .
Cupal or silvered zinc regarding the back ?
Nick

[Jean-Claude]

Yes, a political style bird (NSDAP, SA, HJ) I agree with John: oval/round plates are typical of cupal birds; the coppery undertones under the worn silver on front are also typical of cupal. These birds exist in cupal, aluminum & zink. From what I can see RZM # is M1/50 for maker Richard Sieper & Sohn, Lüdenscheid. This variant can be found in gold or silver colour.

JC

[rrvroman]

Yes, a political style bird (NSDAP, SA, HJ) I agree with John: oval/round plates are typical of cupal birds; the coppery undertones under the worn silver on front are also typical of cupal. These birds exist in cupal, aluminum & zink. From what I can see RZM # is M1/50 for maker Richard Sieper & Sohn, Lüdenscheid. This variant can be found in gold or silver colour.

JC

Thanks for a great info, this is a very nice last 1939 pattern PL cap eagle.

[Jean-Claude]

Thanks for a great info, this is a very nice last 1939 pattern PL cap eagle.

Glad to help
And yes I do call this type "M39" or "model 1939" too normally (as a lot of others do from what I can see) but I was corrected by an expert who said "the germans themselved never called these birds that way" (M29, M34, M36, M37 & M39) which kind of stands to reason since they where only dealing with one pattern/design at a given time and, unlike us collectors 75 years later, had no need to distinguish between variations then

Best regards

JC

[wilhelm Saris]

Why PL? They normally did wear this eagle in gilt since 1939, as it was included in the new regulations from April (Verordnungsblatt der Reichsleitung der NSDAP, Nr. 20/39).
Before that date officially another eagle was used. This eagle had somewhat shorter wings.

The aluminum version, as shown, was introduced for the SA with orders from June 28, 1937 (Verordnungsblatt der Obersten SA-Führung). The patina may give a gilded look, but it isn't!
When correct procedures were used, the reverse also should have been gilded. Further, I do not think this is a Cupal version, as that would be clearly visible by the layers of used materials,
especially when one looks at the reverse!! But maybe they used different proportions. The gilt from the official eagles has a totally different tone.

Cupal: Cupal, consists of an aluminum and one or two brass sheets, being pressed together under high pressure (Kaltwalzplattieren), rolled out by a machine and after that stamped
into an eagle. There do exist five classes of Cupal aluminum and brass. The brass is known as the covering metal (Deckmetall); the aluminum is known as pure aluminum, being the
basic metal (Grund- bzw. Kernmetall). The cover coating also could be from white metal.

[rrvroman]

“Why PL? They normally did wear this eagle in gilt since 1939, as it was included in the new regulations from April (Verordnungsblatt der Reichsleitung der NSDAP, Nr. 20/39).
Before that date officially another eagle was used. This eagle had somewhat shorter wings.”

I agree, aluminum eagles were used by SA, although I’ve seen a few PL visors with aluminum (silver) eagle/wreath combination. Also, pictured here eagle may not be cupal, it could be copper plated aluminum and silver washed then.

[wilhelm Saris]

I agree, aluminum eagles were used by SA, although I’ve seen a few PL visors with aluminum (silver) eagle/wreath combination.

According to regulations political leaders always should wear golden with the new 1939 orders. That is why these persons got phrased by the German population as "Goldfasanen".

Manufacturers were somewhat confused, due to this as the old system had aluminum and golden buttons. A golden eagle was in fact forbidden (Mitteilungsblatt der RZM).
It could also be caused by the fact collectors added the wrong eagle (ignorance), as most do not know about the regulations!
This is what is said with the April 1939-order: "Laut Verordnung 9/39 wird ab 1. Juni 1939 an der Mütze das silberfarbene Hoheitszeichen durch goldfarben ersetzt".