Kreis Tab Pair On EStand

[historyguy]

These Kreis tabs on the e-Stand should be discussed:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=941656

The (viewer's) left eagle arm on each tab show a bump or "pimple" indicating post-war manufacture. (Some believe post-war assembly of a mixture of real and fake parts.)

I have not collected NSDAP tabs for a number of years, so I do not know whether or not this is still a controversial topic.

Any discussion?

[Richard]

As far as I am aware these type of tabs with the extra metal have been discussed many times with the conclusion they are post war. At least the eagles.
Richard V

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...litical+collar

[Jeff Clark]

The lack of pebbling inside the wreath and around the swastika is another indication of post war production, along with the "chicken neck" on the one eagle.

[Bob Clark]

hello colleagues,

Can the "chicken neck" and "bump under the wing" NSDAP eagle, flaws which denote a poor casting, be debated as originals...not really. The production standard for this hardware was (up to the end of the war) rigid.

However, what cannot be debated is the lack of "pebbling" in the round backgound, directly behind the swastika....ALL Originals have this pebbling...even the late war "zincers" have this pebbling, so the producers never cheapened up and there was no variation in this for the 1939-1945 pattern NSDAP metal collar tab adler.

Jeff, you were the one that originally pointed out (a decade ago!) these subtle, yet crucial differences in the metal eagle for 4th pattern collar tabs to me.
In countless hours of NSDAP research and collecting since, there has been no discrepancy or variation found in the standard of production in pre-1945 originals.

Lastly, all of the amazing 4th pat. political leader tabs of first generation Collector Pete Billheimer (you know, the numbered tabs on the reverse with the 3 dots and/or # sign) do not have any of these flaws and as Jeff said once, "Pete knew his stuff". I Agree. He did indeed. Fortunate to own some of Pete's Cloth Political Collection, as Jeff has as well. Some of the Billheimer collection was photographed for the book: Cloth Insigina of the NSDAP and SA (1985).

Time, Research, Expense and Comparison confirm the tabs referenced to be simply.....postwar....the "french version" postwar copies, at that.

[Darin S.]

Odd no comments from the seller. Is this item a "vet acquired" item so it must be original like other controversial items he stands behind?

[Sonderkommando]

Pictures of the tabs being discussed.



...

[Richard]

Still for sale on the e-stand and no comments here from the seller. Surely this thread has come to his attention by now.
Richard V

[Ankar]

Kreis

Here is a picture of how it should look like.