SA General's Sleeve Eagle II

[Rick C]

Below is a continuation on Mitch’s thread that was located here (http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...49200#poststop) The gist of his thread, of course, was - “gold, bullion eagle on red badgecloth - what is it?” In Mitch’s thread Jean-Claude and I speculated an SA origin. Where Mitch let the bird go, it now resides here, thus some new photos are presented.

Badgecloth color, from Mitch's post, appeared red leading to the speculation that it may be related to the SA high command/Gruppe Staff but, upon receipt, in natural light it appears more a color match for Standarte Feldherrnhalle than the high command. Ideas? My first photo below shows the subject eagle laying across my enlisted Gruppe Staff kepi - its color doesn’t remotely match. Secondly, the size of the subject piece being four inches across renders any thoughts of it potentially being a kepi eagle, moot.

[Rick C]

So, the subject bird is 4” across which precludes it being any kepi eagle and under magnification there appears no evidence of having been sewn to a surface so I’m assuming it was ‘unissued’. Under the embroidery is non-reactive unterlagen (#4) and the reverse sports the tissue like paper backing common to wartime embroidery I like to see.

[Rick C]

Tissue type backing again:

[Rick C]

Where these have turned up now and then, others have shared some useful and interesting data. In this thread: (http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...33679#poststop) a bird (once) belonging to Bernie Brule (later John Burchell I believe) was discussed wherein it was shared that sleeve eagles were used for a time (1934) by Generals of the SA to take the place of the armband worn on the left arm, then discontinued. Angolia Cloth Insignia of the NSDAP and SA p. 221 shows SA Grumppenfuhrer Bruckner wearing one. Erich B. detailed that they were authorized for a time for use on the SA fieldgrey uniform.

Member ‘Kir’ pointed out that “Wolfe-Hardin had one of these at the SOS or the Max. It was a great looking eagle but I think it was priced at $7000.” and Erich confirmed that the show Kir speaks of was in the 80s or early 90s. Were anyone to have a photo of the Wolfe/Hardin bird I would love to see it.

[Rick C]

Member ‘11C’ said that: “only Lutze (1934–1943) and Schepmann (1943–1945) would have actually worn a SA sleeve eagle for that rank.” I’m not exactly sure what that statement refers to in that Erich mentioned sleeve eagles were authorized for the fieldgrey uniform. If anyone can elaborate...

In any event, the only other ‘red backed’ eagle I’ve been able to turn up a photo of is one that adorned those white, 1936 Olympic visor caps even though it was said by member Br. James in Bernie’s thread that photos exist of certain high leaders (Goebbels, Frank, Frick) also, occasionally, wearing a sleeve eagle but I’m not sure if they were embroidered to a red badgecloth.

So, an SA ‘group’ color backed eagle for (presumably) wearing on the sleeve is certainly a curiosity that you just don’t see every day. Thus my wanting to snag it where Mitch was letting it go. I would love to see more posted here if anyone else has examples or links if there were more threads relating to these birds.

Rick

[Br. James]

A most interesting subject, Rick C; thanks for resurrecting it! I don't have much to add to what you've already posted here, except that it was Goebbels who sported a sleeve eagle in a photo on a thread here -- can't now recall what the title of that thread was -- and it was stated by one of our colleagues that Goebbels' use of a sleeve eagle was replacing his brassard on the Gauleiter's uniform he was wearing in that photo, and that the occasion was an overseas (outside of Germany) visit. Apparently he never wore the sleeve eagle while in Gross Deutschland.

I look forward to reading much more about this fascinating topic!

Br. James

[Jean-Claude]

Great!

Whatever it turns out to be in the end (I'm still thinking SA High Leader!) let me congratulate you on getting this wonderful bird Rick. Glad to see it found a good home

Attached is what I beleive to be a lower level version (in silver on orangey/red background) of a cap eagle of similar configuration I saw recently

Take care

JC

[Erich B.]

I am not a fan of the above kepi.
Erich

[Rick C]

Kepi - Going to assume you meant the Huesken thing rather than mine Erich, since some eleven years ago you were interested in buying mine if it came available. And here I thought Huesken's stuff was "self-authenticating" like someone else's stuff...

Back on the bird - Another reference to a red backed eagle in this thread: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...+backing+eagle member ‘Tinmantis’ shows one purported to be Italian made featured on Shea’s site at one point.
(ugly bird below)

Another thread: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...+backing+eagle where (presumably) Matt Starr edited out the applicable photos rendering the thread pretty much useless except as a reference point that other red backed eagles do exist… (PMed Matt asking for photos to no avail) In that subject thread Erich stated: “If the backing is bright red (or was bright red), it can only be for the SA Stabschef (after about 1942, if memory serves)--he was the only SA member authorized to wear a gold eagle and only after that date--all others in the SA, no matter what rank, wore a silver eagle.  If the backing was a brownish red originally, it's not for the SA Stabschef--his was on bright red.”

Another thread: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...+backing+eagle where the original poster (Andya) removed the photos rendering the thread wasted bandwidth as any reference datum point.

** It’s interesting to note when doing a ‘search’ here, which this site was intended for and so many members can be quoted as advising newbies to “do a search”, just how many threads are utterly frigging useless because members have posted images, gotten the answers they sought and then removed the images (for whatever reason - I can only imagine…) rendering their threads useless. It’s like going to a library card catalog, getting a list of books you need to review, searching the stacks and finding the books missing their pages. Honestly, I would rather turn up nothing in a research effort than a half hour of wasted life searching though threads void of reference imagery. I really wish management would delete these threads.

[Erich B.]

Kepi - Going to assume you meant the Huesken thing rather than mine Erich, since some eleven years ago you were interested in buying mine if it came available. And here I thought Huesken's stuff was "self-authenticating" like someone else's stuff...

Of course--yours is 100%!
Erich

[11C]

I am not a fan of the above kepi.
Erich

Me either............eagle is not correct.

[cobra-2001]

eagle

Hi Rick nice eagle you have there and a rare one. Cliff

[thall]

The Wolf - Hardin eagle in the 1980s or 1990s was somewhat oxidized silver on carmine, as I recall. So, the backing cloth was not red, but closer to the backing on the eagle that started this thread. Possibly OSAF rather than Group Staff which would be red backed.

[11C]

Thall,

I have the Wolfe/Hardin eagle and a SA gold General Staff eagle as well. For whatever reason this site will not accept my photos but I will be happy to send you photos to post if you PM me your eMail address.

Bob

[Rick C]

Bob: rc@phoenixpwb.com