GPB really?? Original? Niemann Expertise

[Jo Rivett]

"People were faking.." = plural ? really?

Don't forget people were faking his COAs around this time, hence he added the hologram.

..and don`t forget that everytime a bad Detlev Niemann CoA is shown, Jon will be along to pipe out the same tune.. "Niemann CoAs have been faked.."
(Regardless of hologram sticker or not)

Well i put it to you Jon, and others, that these "Fake Detlev Niemann" CoAs exsist only in your heads! And every time you pop onto a Detlev Niemann CoA for a P.O.S thread with your song.. it is for the sole purpose of reassurance... "Fret not chums.... CoAs from the Grand Master have indeed been faked.. it is well known."

Are you able to point interested collectors in the right direction, and show us one - a single - or even half, of a fake CoA by Detlev Niemann, with a statement from Niemann himself saying that the shown CoA is fake, and exactly why it is fake? Not just what you think, were told or read somewhere.

Otherwise all we have are your old songs of comfort, collector lore - a story that started a few years ago when Detlev went tits-up. That was such a shock for most of you i know, hence IMHO, the invention of your song! It may well be a hit among those who own a shed load of Detlev goods, but without proof must be dismissed as Fake News.

[jack1]

Well said Jo.

[jimmy72]

Well said Jo.

[Jo Rivett]

Well said Jo.

Well it doesn`t have to rest on Jon`s shoulders, although he was the one to sing the song on this thread. As everywhere you look, soon after 2010 when Niemann went belly-up, collectors started this myth. Here is a quote from the WRF, for another total fantasy item with Niemann`s paper-blessing. The member Odal is also a member here, so possibly he could weigh in and support what he asserted. Or anyone for that matter.

The market here in europe was flooded with faked Niemann coas LINK

The Detlev freundschaftsverein must provide evidence to support this assertion.

[Dietrich Maerz]

The only thing Niemann knew for sure was that whatever he declared as "original" was original. He pushed the envelope with his "Price Guide" to previously unknown proportions and people are still buying that incredible useless "work." Whoever citizised him was attacked from all sides, it was like heresy!

The forums and the new literature broke his neck - he could not sustain the money drain his lifetime warranty of "money back" created and he bailed out. But he became very rich and the people can wipe sweat of Angst from their foreheads with his useless lifetime warranties.

He was one of the best con-artists and the inventor of the "Friday Frenzy" - meaning offering pieces that are not really for sale in order to create an environment of "Buy first - think later!" And man, did that work!

I have not seen a fake COA from him - but lots of COAs for fakes.

[Br. James]

CoA or no CoA, this badge is a fake AH Honorary GPB.

I'm sorry that you have to bear the weight of this loss, Oberst Rudel, but you are not alone. None of us here is without the experience of being fooled by a faker at one time or other over the years; I have the dubious "honor" of owning an example of the notorious "Austrian Fake GPB" myself, purchased from no less an authority than Ron Manion 20 or more years ago. I have no doubt that Ron was ignorant that the piece he was offering was a fake; it wasn't till about two or three years ago that I became aware of the existence of the "Austrian Fake," and by then Ron Manion had sold his business many years earlier.

"The world is a dangerous place to live in!"

Br. James

[Jon Fish]

Hi,

interesting, did Detlev Niemann sticked pictures of the items in his COAs ?
Because i thought he was printing the whole page (with pictures of the item), then add a stamp/ hologram ?

See You

Vince

Yes he used to stick pictures on

[Jon Fish]

Jo, I've got no dog in this fight buddy. Just commented as I was aware of that as an issue fir the company. A few years before the company closed I remember a private conversation with The owner about how the COAs were being faked and how he was introducing a numbered hologram system to counter that.
I can't show you one Joe I'm afraid my record keeping is not an thorough as others.

Speaking as I find he never sold me anything that turned out to be a copy and the one time I did return something it was refunded straight away without question. But this threads not about that is it ��

Also Jo, your theory could well be right!

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi Jon,

thank you for the info.
Infact you are right, Mr. Niemann was sticking pictures on his COA, i just checked that.

I have another question : on the COA showed below, the date seemed to be "04/08" ?

Because i have a Niemann COA from "05/07" with an hologram.

Is there any sense to that ?

See You

Vince

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

here is a Niemann COA with an hologram.

The Germanische Leistungsrune is fake.

See You

Vince

[Jon Fish]

Hi Jon,

thank you for the info.
Infact you are right, Mr. Niemann was sticking pictures on his COA, i just checked that.

I have another question : on the COA showed below, the date seemed to be "04/08" ?

Because i have a Niemann COA from "05/07" with an hologram.

Is there any sense to that ?

See You

Vince

I'd have to check some old COAs. But when he started with holograms he stopped with the other style, so that would indicate potentially why this GPB document could be fake-i.e. Never issued by his firm as the firm had already moved to hologram COAs

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

another GL fake, with the old stamp model.

See You

Vince

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

there is a lot of COAs on the net, i will check that more closely to try to identify when the holograms started to appear.

See You

Vince

[Oberst Rudel]

CoA or no CoA, this badge is a fake AH Honorary GPB.

I'm sorry that you have to bear the weight of this loss, Oberst Rudel, but you are not alone. None of us here is without the experience of being fooled by a faker at one time or other over the years; I have the dubious "honor" of owning an example of the notorious "Austrian Fake GPB" myself, purchased from no less an authority than Ron Manion 20 or more years ago. I have no doubt that Ron was ignorant that the piece he was offering was a fake; it wasn't till about two or three years ago that I became aware of the existence of the "Austrian Fake," and by then Ron Manion had sold his business many years earlier.

"The world is a dangerous place to live in!"

Br. James

Hi Br James, many thanks for your words, the badge isn't mine, is offered in another forum, when I have some doubts I ask for opinions before buy a piece, any thanks yo all, regards

[Jo Rivett]

Jo, I've got no dog in this fight buddy. Just commented as I was aware of that as an issue fir the company. A few years before the company closed I remember a private conversation with The owner about how the COAs were being faked and how he was introducing a numbered hologram system to counter that.
I can't show you one Joe I'm afraid my record keeping is not an thorough as others.

Speaking as I find he never sold me anything that turned out to be a copy and the one time I did return something it was refunded straight away without question. But this threads not about that is it ��

Also Jo, your theory could well be right!

Cheers Jon, and make no error, i too am surely guilty of "singing a song" for many "things" over the years.. it is just what happens when you read something over and over, you just kind of accept it to be true and pass it on - with good intentions of course.

But thinking about things a bit more rationally, who stared this "song"? Niemann himself? as a reasurance clause for himself towards the end? Or collectors? Because as the WRF linked post says.. "FLOODED with fake CoA`s"?
To me, this is just how a tale evolves, one becomes ten in a matter of days, and a few years later ten becomes flooded. When the reality is that there are no fake Niemann CoA`s at all, at least none that i have ever seen, or that have ever been proven fake. i have also never read anything on this topic by Niemann.