Himmler knife

[J. Wraith]

To J. Wraith:

"You guys are way out of line on this silver, and your friends here are like a pack of wolves just destroying this guy for no reason at all. There is nothing wrong with that silver, the only question is was it Himmler's? and you do not know. But I will tell you that in the past a veteran letter or indirect veteran purchase from a family member has been enough. It may not garner huge premiums but the silver itself is done to the specs that you would see in the period and the paperwork can be decided by a buyer. But what you jokers have done here with the lead role by Jo Rivett the caped crusader of micrp-patina is completely destroy this guy posting his silver. Good job, how very special you are."

I'm sorry you disagree with my opinion, but providing opinions on material that colleagues question is what WAF and other sites like this are all about. When our colleague, a.h., brought this piece to our attention, he did so in good faith, as expressed in his original question: "Real knife himmler monogram HH or Fake?" My response intended to obtain more information about this piece, though a.h. was only able to provide a statement from the vet's granddaughter; no first-hand information there. In my subsequent notes on this thread I sought to express my opinion that, since this knife is not self-evident in terms of its authenticity, I see no way of verifying this piece as having once belonged to Heinrich Himmler. Clear and simple, and certainly without any interest on my part to "destroy this guy" in any way.

We don't do our hobby or our colleagues any service if we aren't honest with each other, and we also don't do WAF any service if we use this forum to demean each other by name-calling. For myself, this was never my intention and I'm sorry if you see something in my responses that was intended to be harmful or hurtful in any way. Such was never intended by me.

Br. James

Br. James,

No, your not being honest because the truth is these items and their type have been bought to market many times on provenance juat like this, but that is really not the point as much as having all you guys beating the crap out of this guy because he purchased silverware to Heinrich Himmler.

How many times do you get 1st hand rock solid provenance on an item, let alone a piece of silver. You joined a gang that beat this guy with a stick. He purchased HH silverware with provenance that while thin is recognizable to anyone that has seen these types of purchases as legitimate. The silverware is in line with the period, it is manufactured of the period, the initials are properly applied, and there is a letter that while not rock solid, is in fact what is often encountered. There has been one seller who comsigned to AHA and his name is in the auction description, he has been known to beat the bushes for this material, and while no one is an angel this is one batch from one seller, of a specific maker and pattern. Why is there 3 pages of thrashing on this guy?.

The market decides the value of provenance and its strength, that is how the market works and the way it has always worked. I see nothing on Jo Rivett's resume that says he is the guy on silver, or many other things, yet he is becoming more and more the expert on every item and critic of such, especially when particular sellers or venues handle it or have hanled it, it is selective and it is noticeable. You want to join that band and carry on about a spoon tht is up to you, but after 3 pages and several days I personally have had enough. Leave the guy alone, you cannot say the silverware is bad, you can not deny the valisity of the provenance, and while it may be thin it is all many habe on items in their collections that back much more important items. You do not want to set this standard and you should think.

[nickn]

Would himmler have used plated flatware ?

[militarymania]

Hey, it's written down so it must be true. This certainly would've been good enough for Craig Gottlieb. Don't be guilty of 'Provenance Denial'.

This is a "self-authenticating" item...CG

[Jo Rivett]

Would himmler have used plated flatware ?

I know, if you go onto the silver sites you can see it`s your garden variety mass-produced plated ware. Hotelsilber, flea market stuff here in Europe.

[GiuseppeC]

Real knife himmler monogram HH or Fake?

Thanks

Hi A.H.

Welcome to the forum!

To answer your question:

It's your standard dinner knife from a plated flatware service. If it were sterling, it would have about 1/2 ounce of silver in the handle, but these plated sets were made for people who couldn't afford the real silver flatware. As flatware goes, it's a low-grade set, not what we would expect Himmler to have.

Knowing that, if I were you, I would get my money back.

Kind Regards,

Andre

[a.h.]

I thank you all for the time devoted to this post!
demand? what are the real cutlery used by Himmler?


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[Jo Rivett]

I thank you all for the time devoted to this post!
demand? what are the real cutlery used by Himmler?

A good question, and would make for a really interesting thread!
I don`t mean just post an image and then have everyone reply with their thoughts, but rather just list as much "Himmler cutlery" as you can find on the net and in catalogs, with the sole purpose being to see exactly what has been offered, and is offered, attributed to Himmler. With of course the purpose of the thread being defined at the start so it stays on track.
I know that there was one US dealer who cornered the market for used Eva Braun panties, so maybe digging deeper will reveal a Himmler spoon king?

Would be interesting to see the sales pitches too, as just on this thread we find contradicting accouts for the identical spoons and forks.. one dealer says factory stamped, the other says "engraved", one says flatware the other claims sterling silver - with both hawkers feeding off the same 2014 vet grandchild memoirs.

[inimicus]

graceful, insightful and well-wrought response. amen.

To J. Wraith:

"You guys are way out of line on this silver, and your friends here are like a pack of wolves just destroying this guy for no reason at all. There is nothing wrong with that silver, the only question is was it Himmler's? and you do not know. But I will tell you that in the past a veteran letter or indirect veteran purchase from a family member has been enough. It may not garner huge premiums but the silver itself is done to the specs that you would see in the period and the paperwork can be decided by a buyer. But what you jokers have done here with the lead role by Jo Rivett the caped crusader of micrp-patina is completely destroy this guy posting his silver. Good job, how very special you are."

I'm sorry you disagree with my opinion, but providing opinions on material that colleagues question is what WAF and other sites like this are all about. When our colleague, a.h., brought this piece to our attention, he did so in good faith, as expressed in his original question: "Real knife himmler monogram HH or Fake?" My response intended to obtain more information about this piece, though a.h. was only able to provide a statement from the vet's granddaughter; no first-hand information there. In my subsequent notes on this thread I sought to express my opinion that, since this knife is not self-evident in terms of its authenticity, I see no way of verifying this piece as having once belonged to Heinrich Himmler. Clear and simple, and certainly without any interest on my part to "destroy this guy" in any way.

We don't do our hobby or our colleagues any service if we aren't honest with each other, and we also don't do WAF any service if we use this forum to demean each other by name-calling. For myself, this was never my intention and I'm sorry if you see something in my responses that was intended to be harmful or hurtful in any way. Such was never intended by me.

Br. James

[a.h.]

I completely agree.
many thoughts but in the end no one to say e'falso 100% the served used by Himmler are .....????????


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[BrianK]

All silverware/flatware is from "vet acquired provenance", including the much traded Adolf Hitler silverware. Or was Griffith making it all up for his book?

[jimmy72]

Quick question for A.H. -- What documents were you given regarding provenance ? Was it just the letter from the Granddaughter ? Thanks .

[a.h.]

Quick question for A.H. -- What documents were you given regarding provenance ? Was it just the letter from the Granddaughter ? Thanks .

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[a.h.]

Quick question for A.H. -- What documents were you given regarding provenance ? Was it just the letter from the Granddaughter ? Thanks .

Yes, only letter.


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[jimmy72]

Yes, only letter.


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Thank you !