Party badge – ADOLF HITLER 1933 –

[jimmy72]

Jim, sadly that lead turned out to not be the elusive GES over GESCH in a box original, but rather the common GES next to GESCH not in a box fake.

Well Jo , not surprised at all . The search for the period AH 33 in cartouche will be a long and unfruitful one for Marius , in my opinion. For me and the majority of people who read this thread , the Lebensborn badge will be seen as a fantasy creation . The only thing we know after all the comments is that the Lebensborn badge has never shown itself in period documentation and that fake badges are legitimized and sold daily by collectors and dealers alike. Exactly why it's important for serious collectors to question and learn before throwing money at a good story . If the path of this knowledge and inquiry offends the sensibilities of some members I suggest they move along to fluffier , back patting topics. Personally , I will not return to this thread , in my opinion , a done deal. No offence to Marius , just nothing else to say about the Lebensborn badge .

[militaria.no]

For me and the majority of people who read this thread , the Lebensborn badge will be seen as a fantasy creation. (…) fake badges are legitimized and sold daily by collectors and dealers alike.

If this is so obvious show me where to find identical (from a collector’s point of view) pins?!? So far I have only seen 4 in the same league!

(...) No offence to Marius , just nothing else to say about the Lebensborn badge .

This is a completely different thread but I can include it:

(...) So far we have seen only four pins `in the same league/more or less same type of productions` (3x US and 1x Norway. I have posted the photo earlier but I will post it again) – this we can agree upon. We have discussed if this might have been a pin for civilians but then we meet a challenge: Why are there no photos or written documentation? But one thing we have not considered: This pin can have been made for internal parts of the Lebensborn organisation. We have seen this before with many pre-war and war insignia. The obvious difference in design (letters and needles) may be due to production by different makers in Germany for same type of/different parts of the Lebensborn organization (for example in Berlin and Hamburg etc.). With only four identical pins seen (so far!) at least I see this unofficial `fraternity explanation` (might even explain why quality is cheap and not the most expensive) as more credible than creative US fakers who have invested time in making variations of a claimed fantasy badge (which in turn I absolutely can’t match with the Norwegian found pin). (...)

[militaria.no]

First of all: In every case with different opinions I think it is important when someone without expectations on what to find contributes. I am not a dedicated party badge collector and I have not read the mentioned book. But on a more general basis I have done some observations but for those who claim to know the answer this might be obvious:

I find a pre-war DRK badge with a certain pin (`silver`), I see a Deutchland Erwache badge with identical pin (`silver`) and I see an Adolf Hitler 1933 badge with identical pin (but here `gold`).

The two latter badges are said to be fantasy. On top of this they are said to be `artificially aged`. These badges were created in 1970s? 1980s? Just as there are no photos of these being worn (I have touch this before: Who on this earth would have anything to gain being associated with Hitler/NSDAP from as early as 1933 after May 8th 1945 – swissjjj went the photos!). There must be some lists from 1970s or 1980s where these are sold in US as `artificially aged` if this is the claim? Lists like these exist? Post them

Identical please! Not some online modern repro crap!

[Jo Rivett]

I am not a dedicated party badge collector and I have not read the mentioned book.

I`d quit demanding that others "show you this or that" if i were you.
Research, is more than a comparison of what you and few others find on Google.

As to your quote:
I am, a dedicated Parteiabzeichen collector, and i have not only read the book, but invested lots of time and money in writing it and getting it published, and available to genuinly interested parties who have lots of questions and seek clarification.

If your questions are superficial, fine, then look for quick answers on other forums and go your own road. What you won`t get from me, is a condensed version of a 500 page book that took 10 years to research, and explains everything you are "questioning" in extreme detail.

[militaria.no]

But my question goes out to those who are interested in sharing forum details – not those who have invested so much time and energy in a publication they prefer to share by selling a product. I understand the enclosed badge is a repro:

[militaria.no]

I just have problems accepting the concept of `artificial aging` on such a scale where every single item has a personal touch (like the enclosed badge). But if this is a known “problem” it would have been interesting to see this. “Variations may occur!”. How many unique items – 1.000? 2.000? 3.000?

[militaria.no]

...it is exactly the same with the Lebensborn pin - "arteficial aging!" bla bla bla. But how many pins have I found? Four! This must be the least lucurative business ever!

[Jo Rivett]

– not those who have invested so much time and energy in a publication they prefer to share by selling a product.

You don`t understand the concept of indepth research, do you?

There is no one-liner, simple forum-post answer to many of the intrinsic questions you have asked. Some of them take a full chapter-and beyond- to correctly address, analyze, discuss and reach conclusions.

So the reason why I will not help you, is because I simply cannot reduce many pages - or a full chapter in some cases - into a post that you would understand - or into a post that would immediately make "everything" clear. Hence the need for page upon page - or a full chapter - to tackle certain subjects/questions.

Now stop being so condescending, and trying to make me look like the "bad man" here. It is in fact the exact opposite. You can throw as many toys out of your pram as you wish, it still will not change the fact(s) that you are asking questions which I have already clarified in-print.

If your interest in the topic of Parteiabzeichen is superficial - as i already alluded to - fine, seek the forum post that you agree with the most, find the Google bilder that best fit your argument, and be done with it. Sit back and relax, take joy in whatever senario you reach.

Don`t, though, spread your wild theories all over the forums and tramp on people who have already, correctly, addressed the issue. If you do, Thor will be back with his hammer, that is about as certain as a Hallelujah at Church.

[Jo Rivett]

... But how many pins have I found? Four!

Thre are at least TEN on waf alone if you do a search. Dating back 10 years, and each thread says the same - FANTASY!

[militaria.no]

The question unanswered if anyone knows this. A reasonable answer to a reasonable question without this must be analyzed page after page:

I just have problems accepting the concept of `artificial aging` on such a scale where every single item has a personal touch (like the enclosed badge). But if this is a known “problem” it would have been interesting to see this. “Variations may occur!”. How many unique items – 1.000? 2.000? 3.000?

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

i will add to the courageous Joe replies that this is the usual error by many (bad ?) collectors to compare new fakes vs. old fakes...

For the Croix de Guerre Légionnaire, at least 16 (sixteen !!!) different types of fakes exist (first ones from late 50/early 60). And in old publications, it is unfortunately shown that (bad ?) collectors compared old (less worse) fakes with new (worse) fakes (which were said to be "originals").
I have more than 200 fakes in my archives.

Same for the Germanische Leistungsrune, i have more than 30 (thirteen) types of fakes, and i'm finding new models/variants every month... Again i have more than 100 fakes in my archives.
But they are still post-war fakes... made over the years since WWII.

See You

Vince

[Jo Rivett]

Vince, the fantasy Braunschweig badge comes to mind here.
http://www.od43.com/Labor_Service_Pin_1_Pi.html

Even though it is a bogus item that was invented post war in the 1970`s, i have 11 -eleven - diffent variants of this fake small enamel badge. Eleven! Made over the last 50 years.

A badge that "never was" during the Third Reich, ELEVEN different versions!

[militaria.no]

This has absolutely nothing to do with ” to compare new fakes vs. old fakes...”.

I wrote I understand! Like in:

(…) I understand the enclosed badge is a repro:

I can refer to this without anyone draw the `usual error by many (bad ?) collectors`-card – as this has absolutely nothing to do with this!

The question was related to overwhelming "artificial aging" - not ”to compare new fakes vs. old fakes...”.


Like in the following post I wrote:

I just have problems accepting the concept of `artificial aging` on such a scale where every single item has a personal touch (like the enclosed badge). But if this is a known “problem” it would have been interesting to see this. “Variations may occur!”. How many unique items – 1.000? 2.000? 3.000?

[Jo Rivett]

This has absolutely nothing to do with ” to compare new fakes vs. old fakes...”.

You have made a pigs ear of it all now.
All you have done on this thread, is compare images of fantasy Lebensborn pins made long ago, vs. fantasy Lebensborn pins made not so long ago, and wailed on about "see the differences"- so, you have done exactly what you are adamantly refuting. bizarre.
I won`t ask why, as it goes, Iedem das Seinige.