Feldjäger high level officer kepi.

[Marc verstraete]

You can show a thousand photos of kepis, and it doesn't change the fact that the eagle is different. There are plenty of closeups.....look for yourself. Look at the bottom row of feathers. they have completely different spacing, with some wide, and some more narrow. The "S" in "NSKK" is different, as is the placement of the "dots" between the letters.
And what happened to the "blackened' area behind the swastika, on one of them?
If blowups of the differences were shown in court, you would lose.
I never said it was a different cap.....that, I don't know.

Don't you read what I explained ? Yes, it is a differed eagle !! The " original" eagle ( the one with the paint) was replace by the photographer and W. Saris for the pictures in the book by the "new looking" eagle.
The eagle on the picture I posted ( the used eagle with the black paint) was put in place after the pictures for the book where made .
Simply, between the two pictures the eagle was switched.
Understand ?

[Marc verstraete]

My dear laurens, jealousy is a nasty illness . Get help !
Insulting people wile hiding under a pseudo has nothing heroic, only cowards do so .


One,
The majority of the people buy the books to see what the "real" stuff looks like.
Not for the text. A fact !

Two,
If it was so "innocent" (altering items ) this way of working should have been mentioned in the books.
" The material in this work has been altered to meet the needs of the publication"
Not doing so is fraud!
Period !

Tree,
Get your facts together man ! Check the info given to you before your accuse !
My collection was made between the early 70's and 1991 ! I stopped completely the Tunic, headgear, guns and material stuff in 1992 ( on a few exceptions like the DE and some "veterans acquisitions) when I dedicated my collection entirely on belt-buckles ...
Collectors in Belgium / Holland who know me know this.


At least I recognise I did not follow the fake market and have been 'out of it" since longer than some on this forum are born .

Marc

[sgstandard]

Cap

My apology - I misread the text.

[Hans Holland]

OMG, this is really getting nasty but let's face it.
Owning the real stuff stuff has always been the best way to become an "expert".
Comparing items in the way they were produced, the materials used, the differences has always been the best way to learn. One will never become a car mechanic by only studying the books. You have to practice and learn by working on real cars.
There aren't many collectors left that started collecting in a time fakes were scarces, nor are there many left that have such large collections they can compare items.
It seems Mr.Verstraete has such a collection. ( which was, unless he got married at the age of ten, build up by himself.)
I do agree with him it's very questionable original items are altered for reference-books (accept when it's stated in the book items where altered) and thus presented as "original. To me that's the same as selling a parts-dagger as an original.

As for Mr.Saris, it's a fact that, apart from a buckle-collection that was sold decades ago, he never had anything coming near to a militaria-collection.
If I'm not mistaken the same goes for you Laurens....

Ps, I was told Mr.Saris now has a large chopstick collection so we are waiting for the first reference book on the subject.

[Marc verstraete]

Quote "Laurens"
""Better it would be if you found a scoop or error in Wim's research. But that's not your strongest part (read my last post)""

Well, this is what this whole tread is about no ?
The marine cap page 419 is post war and a put together with good insignias.
Mr Saris had this cap personally in his hands and decided to put it in the book.

Did he know it was a « fake » and used it anyhow to fool the readers and collectors ?
Or did he not know it was a fake and therefor is not the all knowing « expert » you pretend ?
I can point out more "mistakes" but this would involve involving yet other collectors ..

Quote " Laurens"

""Yes, Wim did the exact same thing the Motor-SA did after they merge together with the NSKK in a undepenable NS-Organisation after the Röhm-Putsch. Simply changing their capeagles. You think you proove something, but you're prooving zero, nothing. ""

Yes, yes, mister Laurens ... This is the way it was done 80 years ago and also a couple years ago when switching for the pictures .

But of course not with MY white top cap (who the majority agree on it is a real cap ) It cannot, never ! Have been « period » transformed into a Feltjeager ...

All the SA caps can be transformed into NSKK caps, but mine not into a Feldjeager ... Because you say so ... ???

[laurens]

Dear Hans,

You're right. I stopped collecting hardware with the exception of special SA-collar tabs. I mainly collect SA photos and paper sources.

I follow your comments, but I think to become a true car mechanic you need the combination of field experience and education. That's mainly in each profession and hobby.

I do believe in exceptions as I show in this thread. It was much more easy for me to hold that brownshirt picture. But exceptions called exceptions because they're exceptions.
The officer FJK cap showned by Mark has four exceptions!

The main reason I quit collecting uniforms is because I don'the trust it anymore. By changing a shoulder board and collar tabs you can promote a Truppführer to a Standartenführer in a single day. Further do I believe that at least 85% of all the today uniforms reside in collections are rebuild. Researching is for my much more fun.

Talk to you soon Hans! Oh and please don't give Marc my full name. I'm really afraid...

[Hans Holland]

I think it's time to make the final comment and then it would be wise if the moderator locks this topic (and remove it from the forum)
My conclusion is that two people who never had a significant militaria-collection but a lot of 'book-knowledge' ( RZM-regulations, period-pictures, reference books seems themselves expert enough to lecture a long time collector with an enormous collection (and 4700+ post on this forum ) and years-and-years of field-experience. That's odd.
Accusing him of "using your wives money to build your collection" and "don't give him my last name because I'm afraid...." etc.etc. is just dispicable.
What is this collecting world coming to. I know it's the reason I sold most of my SA-collection to Bob Coleman ( whom, as I was told had the same experience Marc is having now).
My advice to Marc : Leave this forum, leave the 'hobby', sell your items and sail the world.
My advice to the "critics" : Keep collecting. Within a few years you will have the same thrilling experience Marc has now.
As for the hobby, get your ISIS-items a.s.a.p. They will be collectible in a few years from now.

[laurens]

I think you're right by locking this thread (but certainly not remove it). Everything is said I guess. We start with two questionable FJK- kepis, and end with Fraud.

Remember that this is a discussion forum were we meet, talk, agree and disagree. I really don't want to give anyone the advice to leave the forum. Tomorrow is another day and another discussion.

Best,
Laurens

[Erich B.]

I agree--after cleaning up some of the comments I'm locking this thread. This was, as noted, a discussion about 2 kepis that had been residing in an older collection. Just a few general comments to close: Please note that these are my own observations and are not directed at anyone who has posted in this thread.
Over the years I've met many old-time collectors with huge collections of militaria. I've found, as I'm certain many of us also have found, that having a large collection does not make one an expert. Nearly every large collection I've seen has included pieces that IMO were fake. For example, I knew a collector who began collecting just after 1945, and he had some great items, including 10 or 15 Knights Crosses of the Iron Cross. One of them, however, was a post war Souval copy, which I pointed out to him. In the pre-internet days and prior to the excellent reference books we have today being written, it was not so easy to find information that was reliable. He felt that the Souval cross was a possible original variant cross and did not believe it to be a fake. He had a number of bad Luftwaffe badges as well.
In the late 60s there were already excellent reproduction kepis on the market--I remember finding one on a dealer's table that was stamped by a Dr. Breuer in München on the lining. I didn't know at the time but we now know that Breuer made very high quality fakes that he copied, or had copied, from originals in his 'archives'.
Likewise, it's certainly no secret that there are fake pieces pictured in many, many reference books--sometimes intentionally, as in, for example, an early dagger reference book, which allowed the writer/dealer to peddle his made up daggers. I would assume that more often the fakes are included unintentionally.
IMO successful collecting involves a combination of period research as well as handling and examining as many original and reproduction pieces as is possible.
Erich