Marc, thanks for the thumbs.
Wim, thanks for the kind mails
Wim, thanks for the kind mails
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You're welcome Hans (graag gedaan). We moeten nodig eens eenOriginally posted by Hans Holland View PostMarc, thanks for the thumbs.
Wim, thanks for the kind mails
kopje koffie drinken! It's time for a Starbucks....and a nice chat!Comment
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I too would like to see this photo Laurens. Was it in the grouping of photos of the FJK office Muller that we share? All the photo of him with others that I have, as well as photos of the FJK Schule Suhl and just after transfer to the Schupo, show wool tunics worn. And it is not just from regulations that we know of the headgear. Period photographs substantiate all the comments made. And what is decades in this collecting hobby? Tom Shutt's book came out in 1981 and had glaring errors in info and headgear. And that was 35 years ago.Originally posted by laurens View PostComment
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Hi Hans,Originally posted by Hans Holland View PostHaha, nothing ever changes around here. Somebidy shows a fine item that has been in a collection for decades and, just as Marc states, when at the point of selling there's doubts and trouble. I believe it was one of the big Dutch collectors that once stated "Show me a regulation and I will show you an exception" and man, was he right !!
So don't worry, Marc. Sailing the world on a catamaran sounds much better then being burried in tons of RXM-regulation papers
Hé Laurens, how's life ! Send me a PM. It's been a long time ago.
Regards
Hans
Always nice to see an old friend arround. You really change my point of view.
Marc, do you still have them. I like to have them both....Last edited by Erich B.; 08-05-2016, 01:22 PM.Comment
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I can't place it Joe as I'm not a paying meber. It's from another source.Originally posted by JoeW View Post
Best,
LaurensComment
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Hello Hans,Originally posted by Hans Holland View PostHaha, nothing ever changes around here. Somebidy shows a fine item that has been in a collection for decades and, just as Marc states, when at the point of selling there's doubts and trouble. And, as always, Wilhelm knows best. Being a walking RZM-catalogue doesn't mean one knows everything. I believe it was one of the big Dutch collectors that once stated "Show me a regulation and I will show you an exception" and man, was he right !!
So don't worry, Marc. Sailing the world on a catamaran sounds much better then being burried in tons of RXM-regulation papers
Hé Laurens, how's life ! Send me a PM. It's been a long time ago.
Regards
Hans
I hope all is well there! It's been a long time.
I had said that about exceptions to regulations--I have many period photos showing things being worn that weren't supposed to be, and not worn when they should have been, primarily with the early SA. There were numerous reasons for this.
However, the FJK was a small group with official powers. I've never seen a photo showing them with variations in clothing or insignia--their uniforms were extremely uniform. So, I would still hold that the FJK kepi is put together after the III. Reich period.
ErichFestina lente!Comment
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When looking casually at pictures in books back in the days of easy collecting and low prices... especially when only slightly interested in the subject, one can understand some (my) mistakes. Who, 35 years ago would have cared to think that someone would make a fake coffee can! Or even modify them as seems to be the problem here ... The work was not worth it ... The value was under 100 $ for that stuff. I have in my books prices of 3000 Belgian franks each for these caps (roughly 70 US dollars!!!!!! each) A regular SA cap was then 1500 Belgian franks or less than 50 US dollars ... I do not discus the fact these two above caps are, I will not say "fake" but "Frankenstein’s” . Somme of you are “experts” ... Just remember guy's, 30, 40 years ago, when these caps where bought, there where NO BOOKS or only a handful Angolia's considered then as Bibles. ( Pages 442 to 447 in Angolia's book on SA- Feldjeager corps) Since, these caps have just been in a display case and taken out for a few pictures for a couple books years ago. No one ever thinking of putting a question mark on them.
M.
PS: Wim,
It is my believe that you should have reacted to these caps when receiving the book “Headgear - coiffures of the III Reich” instead of waiting to embarrass a few persons publicly on the forum.
No hard feelings do!
By the way, I'm back in Belgium for a summer vacation :-)Comment
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Hear, hear. I could not agree more and am convinced you are 100% right but, tell the expert he might be wrong and hell's freezing over. No other then those who were there between 1929-1945 can tell if items are real or not and even they got confused by the constant changes in regulations. Especially in the poltical organisations members were so poor they couldn't afford new items everytime and so Mutti was put to work.
It would be worth the while to publish the mails mr.Saris sended me after I questioned his expertice in this topic but, being well educated, I will not do so. Even my account got blocked for a short while....
This kind of behavior made me say farewell to the hobby about 5 years ago.
No need to close this topic since it will be my last comment on the matter.Last edited by Erich B.; 08-05-2016, 01:25 PM.Comment
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At Laurens request, here is the image of the FJK "other ranks" wearing a brownshirt, but with his white whistle lanyard no less. I'm a believer. How about you Erich?Originally posted by laurens View Post
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Thanks Laurens for sharing this great portrait with us.
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The FJK also wore the early Lagermutze with their tunics. Early with the eagle on the front of the cap.Comment
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When Laurens said he had a photo, I didn't need to see it--I know he has put together an amazing archive and I knew it had to be true. Of course, I really appreciate that he has allowed the photo to be presented here (and thanks for posting it, Joe) and I'm very confident that I've never seen anything like it before--fantastic to see it!Originally posted by JoeW View PostAt Laurens request, here is the image of the FJK "other ranks" wearing a brownshirt, but with his white whistle lanyard no less. I'm a believer. How about you Erich?
ErichFestina lente!Comment
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By starting this thread, it was far from my intentions to start a cock fight between members ...
All I asked was a little help .. 
I have above explained why I never questioned these caps. With only so much info available ... When looking at the picture above, my second cap looks dam close to the one the guy is wearing ... Or is it only me ?
I will search into my stuff and see if I find other items of this obscure police unit ...
To be continued ..;
MarcComment
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His kepi is similar to the cotton twill example, however I can't tell if he's wearing a cotton twill or wool kepi in the photo. Perhaps Laurens can tell by looking at the original image? The exterior of the twill kepi shown here looks like a later style cap although the interior shows it to be an early example.
So--is there a lack of info about the FJK being permitted the wear of brownshirts because the units were small and not so many photos have turned up, or
was this member wearing a brownshirt because of a misunderstanding of the regulations, or
could he be a recent transfer to the FJK from a different SA unit and updated the insignia on his shirt prior to being issued, or purchasing a wool FJK uniform, or
???
This is the type of unexplained documentation I get stuck on while working on, and compiling the research for, the SA book(s) I've been hoping to produce.
ErichFestina lente!Comment
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Thank you all!
Yes, Marc's reply on his twill kepi was to be expected. Unfortunate it's not clear enough to see what kind of kepi the man wore.
And I'm with Erich that you don't want find anything like this. In all the files I haves on FJK-Bekleidung from various sources, never ever mentioned anything on the brownshirt. I'm convinced the true reason stays a mistery.
We see that exceptions exist as we all know, but let's face that 99% of all the period pictures shows men in uniforms as it should be. Without any exception!
I'm still convinced the both kepi's are not FJK.
Wim said, and I agree the twill cap from Mark could be an pre 07-1933 Untergruppe kepi. More groups used white. Pretty scarce also...
And in all cases, buy the item not the story!!
Best,
Laurens
-thank you Joe for postingComment
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