IMO definitely not FJK, as they didn't wear brownshirts or cotton twill kepis.
Erich
Erich
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Festina lente! -
Erich B is right with both caps. About the piping system you only should have looked in volume 3 from "Headgear of Hitler's Germany", published in 1998, Marc. Things were described here largely. If you had given a look at wearing photos you would have known about the material.Originally posted by Erich B. View Post
The white top in twill could have been from about 1932 for Westfalen.Last edited by wilhelm Saris; 07-07-2016, 02:08 AM.Comment
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"Dear" Wim .... I have only a 13m catamaran to live on ... I work from pictures only and from about 20.000 miles from the items. Plus, I have to rely on someone else to take the pictures when I need details. If I had a 150 ft ship of my own, I "maybe" could carry the needed books, and why not the items. But unfortunately this is not the case.Originally posted by wilhelm Saris View Post
Your input is appreciated but NOT your sarcasm.Comment
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Moderator, you can close this post if you want. My purpose was to have a discussion on a particular item. Not be insulted.
Thank you all for your help in making me see " the light" in the darkness
MarcComment
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It was no sarcasm!! I did not insult you. I do not know where you are. I just noted a fact!Originally posted by Marc verstraete View Post
You asked for opinions.
You have not always been on your boat, all those years.Comment
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With these caps you don't needs books to see they're not FJK.
Wim just gave you his opinion.
Have fun on your catamaran dude
Last edited by Erich B.; 07-12-2016, 01:36 AM.Comment
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That is very interesting, Laurens! I assumed they didn't wear the brownshirt as every photo I've ever seen of FJK officers and men shows them in the wool tunic and with a wool kepi. Also the period uniform descriptions and illustrations. But I also know that you have what must be an amazing and well-organized archive of research material, so I don't doubt that you are correct. Can you tell through your research under what circumstance or occasion the uniform of the day would be a brownshirt, and do you know if they did wear the wool kepi with the brownshirt or if they wore the twilled cotton type?Originally posted by laurens View Post
ErichFestina lente!Comment
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Maybe there were special orders for the brownshirt. I have never seen any of them.
In the "Anzugsordnung für die SA" from March 1, 1934 this, the Braunhemd, was not included nor described. The material to be used for the cap, tunic, pants and great-coat , was the so-called "Grundtuch", which is the wool product!
But maybe Laurens has more information, as his files are extensive.Comment
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Marc,Originally posted by Marc verstraete View Post
Moderator, you can close this post if you want. My purpose was to have a discussion on a particular item. Not be insulted.
Thank you all for your help in making me see " the light" in the darkness
Marc
I don't see any insults here--I believe everyone who answered this inquiry was trying to be helpful and Wim mentioned his book as some key information is there. I don't think he knows that you live on a boat and don't have access to your collection or references.
That must be a very different life!
ErichFestina lente!Comment
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Hi Erich, All,
Thank you for your diplomatic intervention; I admit I maybe over-reacted . No reason to call me a spoiled child do ...
Thank you all for the input on the topic.
What I do not understand is that these caps have been seen by manny "expert" collectors and never questioned ... Including Wim who has seen them on detailed pictures and "life" if I remember well when making the headgear books ... Except if there is a intel I don't know, Wim did not question them at that time ...
Anyhow, the items have been in a collection for decades with no questioning and only when thinking of selling, suddenly truth comes to light ...
I will have some more "questionable" items for the forum, hope you guy's will be good sport and give a impartial opinion.
MarcComment
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Marc: I had not seen them "life" when I was working with the book. It was just years
and years later! And when I had seen them I would have told about them (of course).
The research for the book was done in the early 1990's and re-started after 1992
or so! I did not know you and your friend. It would take many years.....before we first met!
ErichB: I know Marc lives on his boat, he mentioned this with various occasions, but I do
not know when he is not. By the way, I checked my FJK photos and have not one that
shows the brown-shirt in wear. All do show the tunic and or great-coat! Quite some are
shown in my gorget-book from Germany!
In "Freiherr von Eelking" neither a brownshirt is mentioned. The tunic was worn in
lieu of the German police: die Uniform des FJK ist aus Grundtuch gefertigt (which is
the woolish material).Last edited by wilhelm Saris; 07-12-2016, 03:29 AM.Comment
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The only proof I have is a period picture were the brownshirt is worn. In all the sources I have, the brownshirt is never mentioned.
It's a complete mystery for me too. But a photo doesn't lie...
Best,
LaurensComment
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Haha, nothing ever changes around here. Somebidy shows a fine item that has been in a collection for decades and, just as Marc states, when at the point of selling there's doubts and trouble. I believe it was one of the big Dutch collectors that once stated "Show me a regulation and I will show you an exception" and man, was he right !!
So don't worry, Marc. Sailing the world on a catamaran sounds much better then being burried in tons of RXM-regulation papers
Hé Laurens, how's life ! Send me a PM. It's been a long time ago.
Regards
HansLast edited by Erich B.; 08-05-2016, 01:22 PM.Comment
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