RZM question

[rlimike]

I am pretty sure that the Dlv did not come under the RZM …. I came across a blue armband with the Dlv wing and prop on it and it has an RZM tag. IMHO it is a fantasy piece. Would I be correct in that thought? The reason I am asking is this armband is on a well known dealers auction .... starting bid @ $750.00.

[dastardly]

Dlv

Those DLV armbands with the wing/prop design patch were introduced to the collecting market around the same time as the NSFK armbands with the Icarus patch. They are complete fantasy pieces as no period photograph has ever surfaced with any member of those organizations sporting such armbands. They are well-made and come in different colors, with or without border stripes and are always priced in the hundreds even though they are not authentic, period pieces (they sure do look cool, though, which also makes me ask - have you ever seen a soiled/worn/aged one for sale?). DLV and NSFK members used the ordinary NSDAP armbands on their uniforms once the party armband became standard with all organizations absorbed into the party. The only authentic DLV and NSFK armbands that I have ever seen were associated with their numerous sporting/flying events and competitions (and because they are only worded, they are not cool/sexy enough for most collectors ergo the exotic looking fantasy pieces materialized). I have attached two examples. Good luck with your collection, Chris

[Br. James]

Hi Rlimike,

Regarding your question concerning the RZM: though founded in circa 1929, the RZM did not become fully-functional until 1934-35, which means that many articles created at that time or earlier which would normally have fallen under RZM rulings were not so marked in those early days. Considering that the DLV was not created until Hitler's assent to the German Chancellorship in 1933, it is altogether possible that at least some articles manufactured for the DLV during its early days were not marked with the RZM's license coding.

Cheers,

Br. James

[sjl]

The DLV was not a Party formation, and so was not subject to the RZM in any event.

[Br. James]

Thanks for your good response, Stephen; my knowledge of the DLV is obviously lacking! According to Wikipedia -- which is often a questionable source -- the DLV is described as follows: "The German Air Sports Association (Deutscher Luftsportverband, or DLV e. V.) was an organisation set up by the Nazi Party in March 1933 to establish a uniform basis for the training of military pilots. Its chairman was Hermann Göring and its vice-chairman Ernst Röhm...The German Air Sports Association was dissolved in 1937 and replaced with the National Socialist Flyers Corps, a corporation under public law and subordinate to Reichsluftfahrtminister Göring."

Cheers,

Br. James

[Gary Symonds]

The DLV was not a Party formation, and so was not subject to the RZM in any event.

Stephen is quite correct.

He should know, since he has written several books on the RZM.

Stephen makes it very simple and lists for all to know, exactly what organization was subject to RZM controls.

In addition to the DLV, the railroads contrary to some popular belief, were not under RZM jurisdiction.

I've seen RZM paper tags on RR collar tabs. A dead giveaway.

[wilhelm Saris]

The DLV was not a Party formation, and so was not subject to the RZM in any event.

No, it was not a subject for the RZM, but in ways of law the DLV had the same rights as the SA and SS. This one can read in uniform-regulations from October 4, 1933 (gleichen Rechtsschutz wie die Bekleidung der SA und SS und der übrigen politischen Verbände und Organisationen der NSDAP). This last is visible with an RZM uniform-plate with the uniforms for the SA, NSKK, SS, HJ, pol.leaders and DAF, where the uniform for the Deutsche Luftfahrt (the DLV motor-pilots) is being included!

In the Mitteilungsblatt der RZM nr.9 from March 2, 1935 one can read they (the RZM) were not responsible for the DLV (nicht zuständig). This were the headquarters of the DLV at Berlin). Maybe the one or the other manufacturer thought also the DLV was an RZM-matter (for that of course the reason for the announcement).

[rlimike]

Thanks to everyone for their helping me with my question and sharing their knowledge. I have never come across any NSFK items (except one) that had RZM markings, that's when I did some research (several years ago) and found that the NSFK and DLv did not come under the RZM and any items from either organization would never be marked with the RZM logo. And both used the party armband and not armbands with the Icarus or the Dlv propeller and wings. Again thanks to everyone ... your help is very much appreciated.

[Br. James]

Many thanks to Wilhelm and to Gary for their additional knowledge. May I suggest that one of you submit this information as a correction to Wikipedia, to avoid further misinformation?

Cheers, friends,

Br. James