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Sister Pia's Blood Order Number?

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    Sister Pia's Blood Order Number?

    Dear friends,

    Having gotten way behind in reading my copies of "Military Advisor," I am always playing 'catch-up,' and have just read through Volume 26 #1 (Winter 2014/15) of that excellent magazine. In that issue we have a fine essay titled "Old Fighters! Part 1: Sister Pia" by Jeff Hanson (one of my favorite historians and authors), and I noted that Jeff tells us that Sister Pia "...received, in 1934, Blood Order No. 61." Obviously having far too much time on my hands, I checked other references to confirm this BO number, and came up quite confused! The Wilhelm Brückner/USArmy list of 1st Issue BO recipients does not include Sister Pia under that or any of her other names -- Eleonore Mayr, Eleonore Sponseil or Eleonore Baur -- nor does that list credit BO number 25 to anyone else; and while the Klaus Patzwall list of BO recipients does include Eleonore Sponseil as well as her chosen nickname, "Schwester Pia," it credits her with being awarded BO number 25, not 61. The Patzwall list shows BO #61 as having been held by Hans Erich Gierbauer, a member of SA Regiment 'Rossbach.'

    I must apologize if this discrepancy has already been noted and discussed at the time this issue of "Military Advisor" was published, but I don't recall such a discussion. Kindly refer me to such an earlier discussion, if it indeed took place, and if not, does anyone among us have any thoughts on this question?

    Many thanks, friends, for putting up with me,

    Br. James

    #2
    I have her down as BO 25.

    Comment


      #3
      I did too, Erich, based upon the Patzwall list. But Jeff Hansen is, IMO, a serious and thoughtful author and researcher and when he writes something about this period, I take notice! I do wish he had footnoted the source of #61 in his fine essay...

      Any other thoughts, friends?

      Br. James

      Comment


        #4
        Why don't you ask him ?

        Comment


          #5
          I'd love to, Andreas! Will you PM his contact info to me?

          Thanks very much,

          Br. James

          Comment


            #6
            I sent Jeff an email so we shall see.

            Comment


              #7
              Schwester Pia:thanks for asking

              Originally posted by Br. James View Post
              Many thanks, friends, for putting up with me,

              Br. James
              Hello Br.James,
              I am so grateful you asked this question, as I figured WAF would not have an answer as it is apparently obscurer history in English speaking world.
              I have had an item for yrs now that ties a very beloved Schwester Pia to the early SS TK run Lager system(as well as to the far fringe of SS ideological themes) and have found zero info in English and almost none in Deutsch on her...perhaps I just needed her other aliases that have been stated in the Military Advisor-on this I will be checking.
              Just from this thread of yours I have found many leads.
              If you or anyone else can lead me to more sources of info on Schwester Pia , please let me know

              Comment


                #8
                Hi Michael,

                Glad to oblige, my friend! I know I'm not the 'brightest light' among us here on WAF so I don't hesitate to ask questions of my more experienced friends here. Hopefully we'll all find out some further info soon.

                As I'm sure you already know, Klaus Patzwall's BO list states that Schwester Pia was part of or attached to "Stab d. SA-Regiment München 1. Kp." but that is all he tells us in that source.

                As to her holding the Coburg Badge, which she proudly wore constantly, her name is listed by Robin Lumsden in the list he provided on WWM back in 2009, but I couldn't find her listed in the document titled "Coburg 1922-1932" which Joe Wotka stated originated from the NSDAP Hauptarchiv. In that document I searched for Mayr, Baur (her son Wilhelm is there but she isn't), Sponseil or Schwester Pia or even Pia... There are differences between those two lists: the "Coburg 1922-1932" list includes 436 names while Lumsden's list totals 450 entries, some of which he notes as "Listed in DAL but not Original List" though Pia is not so listed.

                I am also grateful to Erich for contacting Jeff Hanson in this regard; I hope he will be able to shed further light on the question of his source for stating that she held BO #61.

                Cheers all,

                Br. James

                Comment


                  #9
                  I heard from Jeff and BO # 25 is correct for Pia and it will be corrected.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Many thanks for that update from Jeff, Erich; much appreciated!

                    Anyone have any thoughts on my comment regarding Sister Pia's Coburg Badge?

                    Thanks again,

                    Br. James

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Br. James View Post
                      Many thanks for that update from Jeff, Erich; much appreciated!

                      Anyone have any thoughts on my comment regarding Sister Pia's Coburg Badge?

                      Thanks again,

                      Br. James
                      The list I provided was from the NSDAP Hauptarchiv as maintained in the Hoover Collection. It is a "source" document. I would assume Robin's is the same plus additions from the SS DAL (like Weitzel) and visual additions (Pia).

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hi Joe,

                        I'm sure you're right, it's just that I was surprised to notice that Pia was missing from the Hauptarchiv "source" document -- especially given her prominence at major events featuring the Alterkämpers -- and thought that someone might have knowledge as to why her name was omitted.

                        Cheers, my friend,

                        Br. James

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Omission from the Hauptarchiv list indicates she was not at the 1933 event I would surmise. That would not preclude her from applying for the badge at a later time.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by JoeW View Post
                            Omission from the Hauptarchiv list indicates she was not at the 1933 event I would surmise. That would not preclude her from applying for the badge at a later time.
                            Do you mean the 1932 event?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Of course. Big finger...small typing area.

                              Comment

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