SA collar tab - help please

[schönbeck]

Any idea what rank or similar this is?
The color should be for Westfalen, although the photo is not 100% accurate in color.

This comes from the Lamm factory find. So no doubt about the originality.

[squidney86]

Looks to be a 1933 version of a Standartenfuhrer but I believe it should have piping around it

[sgstandard]

Tab

Collar tab is guaranteed original rank tab from either SA Gruppe Westfalen or Ostland, but IMO, there's a good chance the gold device was added to a blank "SA-Mann" rank tab. The "caterpillar" style oak leaf is an early style, but I don't think this one is authentic. The last response was correct also - it should have gold twist-cord piping as well, to go with the oak leaf.

[schönbeck]

thanks both of you.

It's original, see picture for a part of the find. All from the Lamm Fahnen factory

[sgstandard]

Tabs

Lots of neat stuff. Why were the collar tabs removed from the sample books?
How are the ones in the books attached?

[schönbeck]

There were more than this but I could only buy the ones on the bottom row. These I don't think was in the books. Well the nsdap tabs and board have glue remnants the others not.

[sgstandard]

Tab

It's hard to find examples of early Standartenfuhrer tabs, but from the VERY small photo I could find, it appears similar to this one. Compared to later devices, it appears crudely shaped, but perhaps that's how they were made, and I may have been wrong. Regardless, it seems odd that it isn't piped, as per regulations. Nice haul you got there. The purple Dr.'s oval is rare.

[squidney86]

It's hard to find examples of early Standartenfuhrer tabs, but from the VERY small photo I could find, it appears similar to this one. Compared to later devices, it appears crudely shaped, but perhaps that's how they were made, and I may have been wrong. Regardless, it seems odd that it isn't piped, as per regulations. Nice haul you got there. The purple Dr.'s oval is rare.

The only photo I've ever seen of early Standartenfuhrer tabs ive seen is the picture in David Fullers book and the tabs have piping on it in the picture. Has the same style leaf though.

[Barzini]

According to Fuller this oak leaf device was used during the kampfzeit up to early 1934, when an other model was introduced.
Its use is well documented in period images

[Barzini]

see this one for example

[wilhelm Saris]

Can somebody please show a device for so-called "Zeugmeister"??
Since August 1931 (Verordnungsblatt der Obersten SA-Führung, nr. 3 from August 15, 1931. Nr.5: Abzeichen der Zeugmeister) such a person had to wear a "gezacktem goldenen Blatt" (notched/slightly pointed golden leaf).
Maybe this leaf is confused with a Standartenführer-form of leaf!! Just a thought....This 1931-type of device was abolished in about spring 1933.

According the order the patch should be piped (in gold), as also should be for Standartenführer.

[Barzini]

in the picture I posted, the fellow wearing this device is identified as Standartenführer

[wilhelm Saris]

in the picture I posted, the fellow wearing this device is identified as Standartenführer

Yes, I know. I did ask about the form for the device for Zeugmeister. I am convinced the form is a look-a-like for the so-called
early Standartenführer-form.

[wilhelm Saris]

A friend of mine, Laurens, gave me a hint about the first form leave for Standartenführer.
The type is a look-a-like version as adopted from the Deutsche Reichsbahn-organization. I did check it.
The oakleaf was there with the uniform-regulation from May 9, 1924. In the regulation this form oakleaf
was described as "gepresstes gelbmetallenes Eichenblatt" and was in use by the pay-groups VII, VIII, IX and X.

Thanks Laurens!

[schönbeck]

many thanks guys. Always great to learn something new.

These must be pretty rare, can't find anything similar for sale online.