Engraved B.O. number vs. Stamped number

[chen]

We know Hitler's BO #1 and Sepp Dietrich's BO#10 both have engraved number, who else has engraved number on his BO?
Also why Dietrich's BO has engraved #10 on his BO?

[ErichS]

The Dietrich BO has always bothered me due to it being engraved while BO # 6 was stamped. Other than the documented Hitler BO, I would only be interested in the stamped orders. I don't know of any other BOs that were engraved.

[chen]

Erich,
I see your point.
If a faker wants to fake Dietrich's BO, he can locate an un-numbered BO and stamp 10 on it instead of engrave on it.
So,.....

[ErichS]

Erich,
I see your point.
If a faker wants to fake Dietrich's BO, he can locate an un-numbered BO and stamp 10 on it instead of engrave on it.
So,.....

Yes, and it would near impossible to get the fonts correct that were used on period stamped 1st pattern medals considering some of the distinct die flaws and style of the numerials used in the stampings.

[chen]

Erich,
You are right.
Therefore, absolutely important to study the BO's numbers too.

[ErichS]

The style of the numbers used on the 1st patterns is very distinctive and unique and different from those used on the 2nd pattern medals.

[schoenwurf]

Are any unnumbered BO known to exist ? If so, a faker would be tempted to upgrade a "blank" BO by engraving a "1" or a "10"

Then why would Fuess have stamped all BOs, except BO #1 and #10 being engraved ? Unless AH and S.Dietrich had a second BO, which could have been engraved...
What bothers me however is that the engraving number on BO #10 is very poor

[chen]

Yes, un-numbered BO existed.
The history of Hitler's engraved BO #1 is well documentary ,however, why Dietrich also has engraved #10....

[ErichS]

Goering and Hitler had unnumbered BOs with Hitlers being engraved # 1 after Roehms death most likely. That said, there are very few unnumbered 1st patterns that have survived.

[Jon Fish]

This has all been discussed before on WAF

[Bob Hritz]

Number 12 has the standard impressed number.

I agree that it woukd be most difficult to have a number set duplicated that would be identical to the orignial numbers. Also, the numbers are impressed, not stamped with a hand tool. The proper press and holder for the numerals and medal would be required to make perfect copys.

There were 8 Blood Order awardees who received unnumbered medals. Apparantly, these men were important enough that AH did not want to put them in a "pecking order" of who was closest or most important.

I do not know the requirements for obtaining a duplicate, but I would imagine it would be possible. Once the first awards were completed, I would think a replacement would be of the second pattern, although I have never seen or heard of one.

Bob Hritz

[Jon Fish]

Once the first awards were completed, I would think a replacement would be of the second pattern, although I have never seen or heard of one.

Bob Hritz

Bob, I have not see a legitimate 2nd type with a 1st type number under 1500 on either.
However I have in my collection several 2nd style wearers documents for 1st pattern numbers, as replacement documents.

[Erich B.]

Is the nr. 10 piece pictured anywhere? The only BO I've handled that had an engraved number is the '1'. I could never figure out why it was engraved instead of being stamped, but it was.
Erich

[Jon Fish]

Here you go Erich...

[Erich B.]

Thanks Jon.
Looks more like it's scratched in rather than engraved? Is there any provenance tying it to SD? Anything is possible, and Dietrich certainly took some liberties with insignia and uniforms.
Erich