One example of the historical type of westphalian chests being the model for the developed DHW Jul chest is also pictured in this book - picture number 72 to be precise.
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The historical model is the so-called "Niederrheinische Stollentruhe", also due to it´s construction and carved decoration on the front side known as "Vierfeldertruhe" (four panel chest) - this type of historical german chest was mainly manufactured in Westphalia and there in the region near the Rhein - just exactly around the cities of Moers and also Düsseldorf!
SS-Obergruppenführer Weitzel as publisher of the SS family book was commander of Allgemeine SS and police in Düsseldorf - there we have the connection.
As visable within the carving this historical example is dated from 1784.Comment
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So - enough of this jealous BS and defamation against me and my period NS and SS cultural objects!Originally posted by jabnus View Post
I know exactly what I am talking about and you, dear Sir Gaston Vrolings, are the liar here acting obviously in desperate jealousy.Comment
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The treasures are still out there!
Don, thank you for your input.Originally posted by Capt. R View Post
Yes, both of my shown chests are indeed genuine DHW Jul chests and YES: There are individuals around who cannot handle this truth.
Nonetheless the hunt continues and you will all remember this third period chest I shared - due to it´s significant decoration and symbolism via the used runes (Ingrune - Odalrune - Lebensrune - Totenrune) and also the masterly carved mother-child-medaillon in center I evaluate this one as being a representative SS family chest.Comment
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Happy hunting! :-)
Well, Michael Fay at least will know about the existence of a second example of this type of period cultic chest in another german collection - that one is slightly different from mine in so far as bearing a family crest as main decor carved in traditional heraldic style on the lid accombined by a motto carved into the front side of the lid while mine does not have these additional personal dedication "extras".
Now - yesterday night I came home from the hunt and on board my newest haul and here is the first pic of it.
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beautiful examples. This should be its own thread.
Thorsten your theory on the origins of Weitzel's choice of chests based on proximity to that geographic area is quite interesting. I've been critical of you in the past but on these things I am starting to agree based on the totality of the evidence. Your rationale is is the type of critical thinking that must be done to examine the deeper meaning of these things. I am not saying it is absolutely correct, I am merely stating that through some detective work you can reduce some things to the lowest common denominator and see what you have been left with and where it ultimately leads. I must say that the choice of the particular styled "grapevine" chest being placed in Weitzel's book is more significant to me now when compared with the other DHW photographic offerings of the same chest. It is somehow intertwined and I would guess it was purposeful and not just out of convenience.Comment
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Don, as you can imagine, I absolutely agree with you.
And yes - there is nothing wrong about being critical as long as it leads to a fine and constructive discussion and result.
So for now we know about three examples of this type of family chest - I have also a pic of the third example on file here but it´s not good quality and don´t know if the owner would have problems with it being published or not.
So there is a series of these ones, I think in very limited numbers and some probably still "hidden" in family hands like the one I just purchased.
Due to this chest being manufactured more than once it most definitely must be an official period piece being offered via an official TR institution or organisation - whether all these pieces were crafted by one single firm/master is yet unknown.
Nonetheless by comparing the carved details of my two almost identical chests I come to the conclusion that they were obviously not being crafted by only one and the same carver.
Without any doubt these are period due to the fact that my second example is dated on the lid "ANNO 1940" = "in the year 1940" and was given as the official wedding present to the bride on the occasion of her wedding in 1940 by her father who was - like his daughter, the bride - of high prussian aristocratic descent.
I will receive more period docs and the whole background regarding the wedding, the chest and the belonging family history including the carved family crest in the near future.
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..and yet another cultural thread with alot of bitch-fighting over and over again.
I recommend to some people, turn of your computers..go outside and take a deep breath of fresh air ...and re-think!!!
IMO its more of a wishful thinking to link those 2 plates that started this thread to have a NS background...if I read some of this stuff posted here, it seems many collectors like to think that all people in Germany back then who had a wooden plate at home must have been Nazis
...ridiculous isnt it?!
If I tell you my GrandGrandma also had a wooden plate with a saying or even with a Edda slogan at home in the 40s but nor she or my grandgrandfather had any NS Connection, no party book or not even tend to like the TR period with their leaders...what about those plates?? still NS Plates?? or maybe just the carver was a Nazi and spreaded his NS work to lots of homes with innocent, ordinary german people??? yeah sure.
It was a "modern" decoration item for them..not more not less..
..and not every wooden plate that has some ear of corn carved in it was part of a Erntedankfest or anything. ..maybe it was just a nice gift from the farmer neighbour next door...no, he wasnt in any Blut and Boden or Reichsnährstand organisation..no he had no Erbhof...he was just shopping at a market and thought its a nice present for my next door neighbours, because they grow corn for years...and because its my buddys Birthday I have it done or do it myself and carve in his Birthday date on the backside..its that simple
Im not talking about all wooden plates shown here, because some are very nice and really have a NS or SS background of course..
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Originally posted by Thorsten B. View Post
Thorsten Beine, you are wrong with everything you posted in this and many other topics, you have been caught doing this by the moderators in the SS section and while being banned there and on the E-stand for posting fake items, information and lies about fantasy regular German items you continuously sold on the e-stand as NS/SS items that have nothing to do with the stories you make up to sell your fakes, you are somehow protected by the forummods, but gladly there are a few people who do their homework and can tell the bull**** you post and yes, i am one of them and so is Gary Wood int he SS section that kicked you there. You can try to polute other forumsections like our beloved political section here, but you WILL get the responses you got in each and every other cultural topic you tried to polute: the truth that shows your a thief and liar.
It's a bloody shame we have to go through this again! Everything you typed in my absence above here is wrong, your chest is not an SS item at all, there are NO types of chests and as usual you can't proof one single thing of the things you post. Im not at home now, but will try to post more later and else tomorrow. Some peopel may be easily impressed by random pictures of old German chests, but it only means they are impressed by random German folkish items, nothing NS or SS there at all!!!!!!!!!
Insult and type whatever nonsense you want about me, with whatever made up stories and random pictures you like as you posted the past few hours, it won't stand a chance and you know it. You're with you back against the wall and have no way to run to, to keep up your lies to mask your criminal activities on the forum possible. If it's not me im sure some other members wills tep up and tell what's wrong with your posts and items.
The mods would do good to ban you right away as you are now poluting and destroying this political section now too.
Unbelievable how thieves and criminals are given a chance to do this here on the forums. I will contact Gary Wood and the admins, be sure about that.
It's saturdayevening and i need to go, but lastly again: you can try and call em jealous as much as you want, but im not jealous about the non original items you post and the many peope here on the forum im in contact with and that know me, can tell you that unlike you i have never frauded anyone, never sold a fake on purpose (if ever?) and only contribute in the topics i know something about (like here!). Besides medals and badges i do however collect cultural brooches and a few other cultural items and have quite a collection of period booklets and other literature that can easily proof everythign you say wrong.
If in the meantime before i properly can respond when at home, and dig up some pictures of my own and you type more nonsense (im sure you will), try to proof that your chest is a real SS item and not from far far before 1933??? You can't and you know it. Cut the bull**** about your new made up "types 1, 2, 3 et cetera". There are no types of these, its just a german design that has been around for centuries. These chests have in this very same design been around for at least over 200 years and are in no way what you claim them to be.
It was pictured in the books our thief above mentions as AN EXAMPLE OF OLDER GERMAN HISTORY AND CULTURE , a little fact he left out, and was as such pictured in Weitzel's SS family book and in some other period booklets that showed German OLDER cultural items like chests and furniture. Pictures that were massively published by the hundreds in many period publications like Odal, Hammer, Der Aufbau, Fraunwarte, and countless other publications. In none of them they were called or mentioned to be SS items. If anyone likes i can posts tomorrow over a hundred pictures of these magine's that show GERMAN FURNITURE! None of it SS, none being mentioned to be so.Originally posted by dragnet View Post
THE CHESTS ARE SIMPLY NOT WHAT THORSTEN CLAIMS THEM TO BE. IT'S UNBELIEVABLE HOW THIS IS ALLOWED ONT HE FORUM AND HOW PEOPLE CAN RESPOND TO THESE LAST TWO PAGES BELIEVING THE NONSENSE HE TYPES HERE!!!!
See under here, type I of Thorstens not original SS chest, from around 1800, the very same chests have been made eversince, were they in 1800 already SS chests? in 1850? in 1900? in 1930? in 1935? in 1940?
Can he produce any evidence how his chest is different than a chest made in 1890 or whatever year before 1933?
People do your homework and don't facilitate this fraud to spread his lies so that he can sell more of the wood items he buys on fleamarkets on the e-stand as original NS/SS items. I can translate whatever page anyone wants from the SS Familybook or whatever publication and show you that what Thorsten claims is in those publications is not true.
Evidence, is it so hard to look at that? Or easier to believe in fables and being frauded from hard earned money by Thorsten Beine?
More tomorrow, i really have to go now.
GastonComment
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Originally posted by Thälmannpionier View Post
Yes, unfortunately so and very glad someone recognizes this. The rest of your post is so true!!!!!!!!Comment
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Gaston,
Just relax and enjoy your weekend.
And not to forget: Happy collecting!
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Shot out of Weitzel´s SS family book showing the SS Jul corner with DHW Jul chest and DHW tapestry with stags.Comment
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Hey T. same photos again and again???..its getting boring but if the Weitzel Book only shows this tiny image, what else to post right?! But the Weitzel image shows a different Tapestry than you have in your collection but as we have learned from you now...the Weitzel image shows type 1 DHW tapestry and yours is a type 2..correct?!Originally posted by Thorsten B. View Post or is it a early and a late war example..sounds better..
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Gaston
Please post some of the photos from period publications you mention and explain exactly how Thorsten's theory is flawed. Why is the notion that traditional chests were used to create DHW furniture problematic?Comment
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The SS cultural products manufactured and distributed by the DHW are directly mentioned and/or pictured - here in combination with the use of the Jul chest the Radkreuz.
Citation out of the SS Family book - middle part on page 41:
"Die Ecke soll in ihrer Gestaltung durch die Familientruhe bestimmt werden, in der die erblichen Familienstücke ruhen, und in der die Gegenstände der Jahresfeiern (Baumschmuck, Radkreuz, usw.) aufgehoben werden. Natürlich kann auch ein kleiner Tisch in der Ecke stehen, allmählich jedoch sollte jede Familie zu ihrer Truhe kommen."
Translation:
"The corner shall be determined via the family chest in which the heritable family pieces rest and in which the items of the anniversary celebrations (tree decorations, wheel wrench and so on) are stored. Certainly a small table can also be standing in the corner but step by step each family should come into property of their chest."
Both the pictured chest and the Radkreuz (wheel wrench) are without ANY doubt period DHW products - in case of the Radkreuz it is directly mentioned and in case of the chest it is indirectly stated as well and can be determined via the context - and in addition to that via the different period DHW publications and period articles about the DHW and it´s products.Comment
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