Identification of an SA or Political Uniform

[sgstandard]

Uniform

I just did a little research, and the NSKK officer tunics had only one shoulderboard. The exception was NSKK involved in wartime operations, and there is photographic evidence of 2 shoulderboards being worn at that time, but I don't think they wore a party armband - I think they repositioned the NSKK eagle on the right sleeve to the left. But I still think that kepi has no black top, so I stand by my earlier opinion that he's SA all the way. Let's see what others say......

[Br. James]

Very difficult to tell what rank this man held, given the blurred reality of the photo. He appears to be holding an SA kepi in his left hand and the dagger he's wearing also appears to be SA. The one visible collar tab is no help since a piped tab with two stripes would also have had pips above the litzen, and no pips are visible. The shoulderboards appear to be those of an SA-Sturmführer to SA-Hauptsturmführer rank as worn in 1940-1945, but again, the left tab of those ranks included three pips.

Br. James

[sgstandard]

Pips

Br.James - Resize your computer to 200% and you can see the pips, but it's hard to discern how many. And what about the kepi top - does it look black to you?

[sgstandard]

Pips

I just blew it up to 400%, and it looks like the shadows from 4 pips. If he has 4 pips, then he would have only one bar of litze =Obersturmbannfuhrer.

[Br. James]

No, the kepi top appears to be in shadow. From what is visible, there doesn't appear to be any color above the kepi's turn-up. Not sure what that means...the original kepis had no colored tops, but that changed in about 1931...

Br. James

[sgstandard]

Uniform

UH-OH !!! I think I was wrong about him being an officer. The same "shadows" I thought were from pips, also shows up on his collar, leading me to believe there ARE no pips, after all. Besides, they would probably be more visible. Therefore, the bright-looking shoulderboards could be enlisted boards, with the bright sun playing tricks. The fact that his kepi has no piping led me to reevaluate my assessment. I now believe he's an SA enlisted man with the rank of either Obersturmmann or Rottenfuhrer, depending on whether there is one or two litzen.

[Stormfighter]

In the past two days, I made contact with the great nephew of the person we are discussing. The nephew told me that his great uncle was an SA-Rottenführer. Does this sound correct? If so, would the 1944 translation of SA-Rottenführer be SA Corporal?

Barry

[sgstandard]

Uniform

Great news! That confirms my last assessment, and also confirms that there are TWO litzen and NO pips. Rottenfuhrer is roughly equivalent to E-3. What was throwing us off, was the shoulderboards, which look like officer's boards, so I was assuming there HAD to be pips. It was obviously just the bright light. His shoulderboards are medium brown cords with silver veins. I've included a photo of what that tab looks like up close, though depending what SA Gruppe he was in, the color of the tab will vary. This is from Gruppe "Neckar". I'm sure someone will be glad to post a pic of a 2nd pattern enlisted shoulderboard so you can see what it looks like up close.

[Stormfighter]

Great news! That confirms my last assessment, and also confirms that there are TWO litzen and NO pips. Rottenfuhrer is roughly equivalent to E-3. What was throwing us off, was the shoulderboards, which look like officer's boards, so I was assuming there HAD to be pips. It was obviously just the bright light. His shoulderboards are medium brown cords with silver veins. I've included a photo of what that tab looks like up close, though depending what SA Gruppe he was in, the color of the tab will vary. This is from Gruppe "Neckar". I'm sure someone will be glad to post a pic of a 2nd pattern enlisted shoulderboard so you can see what it looks like up close.

Thanks a lot! The man was from the Löbtau district of Dresden if that may help in identifying his SA unit.

Barry

[sgstandard]

Sa

I believe SA Gruppe "Sachsen" was in Dresden. If so, his collar tabs would be emerald green, and the collar tab piping would be silver. Pre-1938 officer's tabs are shown here for the correct color, though they're not a matched set. The rank tab is wool felt, and the rank tab is woven wool.

[Stormfighter]

I believe SA Gruppe "Sachsen" was in Dresden. If so, his collar tabs would be emerald green, and the collar tab piping would be silver. Pre-1938 officer's tabs are shown here for the correct color, though they're not a matched set. The rank tab is wool felt, and the rank tab is woven wool.

Thanks!

[Br. James]

Yes, SA-Gruppe Sachsen was headquartered in Dresden.

Br. James

[Doug Kenwright]

I am struck by the profound expression of grief on the father's face in the second resized photo..

[Serg]

Example of the bottom ranks of Groups "Sachsen" and "Neckar" (till 1942 of "Südwest").
http://sammler.ru/uploads/post-738-1353264756.jpg
http://sammler.ru/uploads/post-738-1353263565.jpg