Can anyone post a photo of an SA man wearing the "NSDAP Reichsparteitag Nurnburg 1933" badge? I saw an early, enlisted SS guy wearing one. Any SA photos of that? I would guess that they were there too. I know it was an important SS event. Thanks!!
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You really have to look closely though... -
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I'm not sure what Sgstandard is referring to when he said that the 1933 Party Congress was "an important SS event," while he wondered whether the SA had much to do with that event...?? The title of that year's Reichsparteitag was "The Party Day of Victory" and I have no doubt that every one of the hundreds of thousands of participants and visitors -- each of whom wore that year's event badge -- saw the events in just those terms! It was also the setting for Leni Riefenstahl's first attempt to capture the excitement and vast majesty of those four days (August 31-September 3) on film -- a film that was entitled "Victory of Faith" -- again carrying forward the theme of the fulfillment of the Kämpfzeit. While I'm sure that to the SS as a Party organization, the 1933 RPT was indeed an important event, the nearly overwhelming presence of the SA -- with their heroic leader, Stabschef Röhm, at their head -- was undoubtedly the force to be reckoned with...as it was the following summer... For the SA, the 1933 RPT was the culmination of their very existence and Röhm and the SA leadership took full advantage and delight in it.
Br. JamesComment
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Badge
Very, CLEVER, "Matthew"..........but would you mind posting a pic from the FRONT? That's not too much to ask. They didn't wear awards on their back....Duh-h-h....! Besides.....you hurt my feelings, and I feel bullied. The guys on these Nazi forums are "beasts", and care little about a sensitive member with low self-stteem
. But just because my wife picks out my socks every morning, and won't let me buy a BB gun, doesn't
mean I can be pushed around. Ow-w-w-w-!! Now I just got a paper cut! THANKS !!
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Badge
On a serious level, I should have been more specific. My goal was to ascertain how long this badge was worn beyond the actual 3 or 4 day event. Comparing the badge to the uniform being worn in the photo, would give a clue to the badge's longevity. If the information I've found is correct, this badge was included in the list of official Partei awards in a March 1935 order (" SA Sportsabzeichen, Coburger Abzeichen, Abzeichen der Parteitag 1929 und 1933, Abzeichen des SA - Treffen Braunschweig".)
The consequent order of 14 November 1935, however, does NOT specifically include the 1933 badge, but relates to "Traditionsabzeichen" and the other awards of the Partei.
On Nov. 6, 1936, Hitler introduced a further order that formalized the awards of the Partei, and forbade the wearing on Partei uniforms that had, by tradition, become considered genuine Partei commemorative or honorary awards.
This information is from the "Ailsby Collection", and I can't verify it's accuracy, though they seem to quote Partei regulations and their dates.Comment
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I shoulda known I notice from the photo that a fair amount of them appear to be maker-marked.
As for the SS reference, apparently, the dedication of the Adolph Hitler Standarte took place at the rally. "Sepp Dietrich received the banner with the name, "Adolph Hitler" on the box."
You're correct, of course, the SA obviously would have attended, but I doubt they knew the dark days to come.Comment
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Its interesting to watch the banned film of the 33 Rally to see just how right you are sgstandard. They certainly didn't know it was coming. To see Röhm invited into Hitlers car to stand behind him for the town square march past is amazing history. No one was ever invited in again. Triumph of the Will from 34 is interesting that it uses much the same structure and music along with lots of SA/ SS loyalty to Hitler and his speech at the presentation of Standards to try and smooth things over so soon after June.Comment
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Right you are, Tony, but then no one else in 1933 had the stature of Ernst Röhm, either among the Party organizations or in Hitler's private life. Röhm took full credit for hammering his way into the Reichstag by intimidating everyone he came upon, and that had a cost attached to it. He also promised his SA "pie in the sky" after Hitler would be made Chancellor, and he meant to keep his word. After 'the Night of Long Knives,' it's hard to imagine that Röhm fell so far and so fast. He was partly done in by his own pride and ambition, being so self-assured that his SA brought Hitler to power, and he wasn't shy about shooting off his mouth in front of large audiences -- which is how Goebbels and Göring maneuvered his downfall in Hitler's eyes, with the aid of Himmler, of course. Had Röhm been satisfied to work with the new government toward absorbing the SA into the main stream of secular life in the new Germany, 'the Night of Long Knives' would probably never have taken place...because Goebbels and Göring would not have felt threatened as they did by Röhm's bombast and ostentation. But he wanted nothing less than to take over the German Army, together with his trusted lieutenants of the SA, and that was just not in the cards.
Br. JamesComment
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1933
As I understand, after the rally, Rohm was in Bolivia, and even though Hitler was in power, when the subject came up about "toning down" the unruly SA, he wrote a letter, and was saying things like "The SA is in a perpetual state of revolution!"(paraphrasing) Rumor was that Himmler and Heydrich were wispering in Hitler's ear that Rohm was possibly plotting a coup. Probably more relevent was the fact that Hitler needed the Army for his plans for Lebensraum, and the Army generally despised the rival SA. I wonder how many SA troopers were shot, more on the basis of personal dispute or animosity, than the fact that they were plotting. I believe it's accepted that there was no real threat from the SA and no actual plot of any kind, other than Rohm's big mouth.
BTW, my questions were answered on Google Search. Guess where it directed me? Wehrmacht Awards. None other than "Military", I believe, posted some of these badges around 2011. Some real beauties, too! And they DID make a tinnie version !!Comment
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Rohm was in Bolivia 1928-1930 so before the rally of 1933. Also- with the exception of the one pictured below (20k gold)- all of them are considered "tinnies". And since the owner is wearing a brown shirt of the SA- here is your close-upOriginally posted by sgstandard View Post
cheers
MattComment
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"Rumor was that Himmler and Heydrich were wispering in Hitler's ear that Rohm was possibly plotting a coup. Probably more relevent was the fact that Hitler needed the Army for his plans for Lebensraum, and the Army generally despised the rival SA. I wonder how many SA troopers were shot, more on the basis of personal dispute or animosity, than the fact that they were plotting. I believe it's accepted that there was no real threat from the SA and no actual plot of any kind, other than Rohm's big mouth."
I believe that's right, Sgstandard, though Göring and Goebbels were behind the major rumors, with Himmler adding flavor to them as an 'insider's perspective.' Göring was long courting the military as he saw himself occupying a top-level position among them, and Goebbels had his fingers on the pulse of the nation...a 'pulse' that was now beating hard against the need for the huge and seemingly-uncontrollable SA. During the Kämpfzeit, the SA provided the strong arm that was effective in challenging the Red Front, while it also provided the spark of camaraderie and respect that many young men in Germany longed for. But as soon as January 30, 1933 passed into history, the need for a private militia totaling millions of men was gone, and Hitler wanted to get about the work of building up the real military. So overnight the SA went from a necessary force pushing the NSDAP to power, to a public embarrassment with no foreseeable use or future. Göring and Goebbels saw that plainly, but Röhm was at the pinnacle of his personal power and had no intention of letting go; indeed, he saw himself as nearly equal with Hitler -- Hitler as the front-man inspiring the nation and Röhm leading the army to back him up. Röhm was simply too close to the problem to recognize it, and too secure in his relationship with Hitler to anticipate being unseated by the schemes of others around them.
'The Night of Long Knives' was much more encompassing than simply a blood-letting of the SA leadership, though it was certainly that. It was a time of unbridled political retribution and the lists that Göring drew up included many who had served to hinder the NSDAP's rise to national prominence during the Kämpfzeit. It settled many 'scores' that the Party had nursed since it's earliest days. There was no actual 'plot' that Röhm had developed with the intention of carrying forward his bluster of a "Second Revolution" in Germany, but his blindness to who he was dealing with, his personal confidence in his close relationship with Hitler, and his tendency toward showmanship -- the same showmanship that attracted so many members to the SA -- made his elimination inevitable.
Br. JamesComment
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Rohm
Very interesting perspective that I hadn't ever thought of - that some SA leaders "hindered" the movement. You would naturally assume they were idealistically all on the same page, but "assumptions" are just that. It just doesn't work that way.Comment
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Interesting post, although it must be remembered Victor Lutzes role in this, he was the one who reported Rohms infamous drunken rant, he of course benefited from Rohms downfall.Originally posted by Br. James View Post
His reputation for being homosexual didnt do him any favours when the end came but as Anthony Eden stated " Rohm was a rarity in the modern world, he was a man who boasted of being brave and yet was brave" unlike most of the top nazis.Comment
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