Poster that came in the other day

[der-hase-fee]

Demagoge = demagogue

Demagogie = demagogy

"NS demagogy calls for Total War"

While MF is certainly correct that post-war German vocabulary and its use changed, I don't thing "Demagogie" ever had a positive meaning.

[John T]

The piece is unflattering to be polite from an artistic standpoint.

[Michael Fay]

Demagoge = demagogue

Demagogie = demagogy

"NS demagogy calls for Total War"

While MF is certainly correct that post-war German vocabulary and its use changed, I don't thing "Demagogie" ever had a positive meaning.

If that is true for this word, then the poster has got to after '45.

While no one mentioned the possibility of Allied Propaganda (I don't think)
The production values(material) of the whole piece don't seem easily concealable which would be needed if this was Allied propaganda to be dispersed in late war Nazi Germany.

So...it is leaning towards post 45 instructional 'propaganda' of the post 45 political realities

[oldflagswanted]

School poster from 1960 ...

...the poster has got to after '45...

Hello Michael:
Poster is listed elsewhere online as from 1960.
http://www.antiquariat.de/angebote/GID21167124.html
"Bochum., Stockmann Verlag., 1960. School Poster, 70 x 100 cms,
coloured, pasted on cloth. 1960 = approximative. In the series;
Darstellungen zum aktuellen Geschichtsunterricht." 90.00 EUR
and at http://www.biblio.com/books/492348464.html
at € 104.00 ($141.45)
OFW
(below) eBay.de 261261410700 Aug. 2013 100€

"Nationalsozialistische Demagogie ruft zum totalen
Krieg auf - Goebbels fanatisiert das Volk", by
Paul Stockmann Verlag, Bochum Karten - Nr. 358

[Anthony Evans]

When was law 86 put in place?

[oldflagswanted]

about law 86 ???

When was law 86 put in place?

Hello AE:
As a school teaching poster it was/is exempt from "law 86", per
"(3) Subsection (1) shall not be applicable if the means of propaganda
or the act serves to further civil enlightenment, to avert unconstitutional
aims, to promote art or science, research or teaching, reporting about
current historical events or similar purposes. […]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_section_86a
OFW
PS/ Interesting to note, symbols known to fall under the law are:

• 
  
  the Nazi Hakenkreuz
• 
  
  Celtic cross
• 
  
  Solar cross
• 
  
  Ku Klux Klan variant
  of the solar cross
• 
  
  Wolfsangel
• 
  
  Othala rune
• 
  
  Sturmabteilung emblem
• 
  
  the SS emblem (Sig runes)
• 
  
  The 3rd SS Division Totenkopf
• 
  
  The WW II Luftwaffe's
  Kampfgeschwader 54
• 
  
  Reichskriegsflagge 1933–1935 (National war flag)
• 
  
  Reichskriegsflagge 1935-1938 (National war flag)
• 
  
  Reichskriegsflagge 1938–1945 (National war flag)
• 
  
  Dienstflagge der Wehrmachtbehörden zur See (Armed Forces, Service Flag) 1933
• 
  
  Reichsdienstflagge 1933-1935 (Reich Service Flag)
• 
  
  Reichsdienstflagge 1935-1945 (Reich Service Flag)

[CWP]

Here it is again. Definitely 1960s.

http://historywallcharts.eu/view/dem...onal-socialism

Another poster from the same series of educational posters.

http://historywallcharts.eu/view/mar...swept-up-in-a-

Another showing the destruction of Germany.

http://www.antikvariat.net/en/RIZ15656.cgi

And another one showing refugees, winter 1944/45.

https://www.deutsche-digitale-biblio...A2ISW5?lang=de

[Michael Fay]

Hello Michael:
Poster is listed elsewhere online as from 1960.
http://www.antiquariat.de/angebote/GID21167124.html
"Bochum., Stockmann Verlag., 1960. School Poster, 70 x 100 cms,
coloured, pasted on cloth. 1960 = approximative. In the series;
Darstellungen zum aktuellen Geschichtsunterricht." 90.00 EUR
and at http://www.biblio.com/books/492348464.html
at € 104.00 ($141.45)
OFW
(below) eBay.de 261261410700 Aug. 2013 100€

"Nationalsozialistische Demagogie ruft zum totalen
Krieg auf - Goebbels fanatisiert das Volk", by
Paul Stockmann Verlag, Bochum Karten - Nr. 358

Well, that's that...it is after 1945 for sure.

[Michael Fay]

Hello AE:
As a school teaching poster it was/is exempt from "law 86", per
"(3) Subsection (1) shall not be applicable if the means of propaganda
or the act serves to further civil enlightenment, to avert unconstitutional
aims, to promote art or science, research or teaching, reporting about
current historical events or similar purposes. […]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_section_86a
OFW
PS/ Interesting to note, symbols known to fall under the law are:

• 
  
  the Nazi Hakenkreuz
• 
  
  Celtic cross
• 
  
  Solar cross
• 
  
  Ku Klux Klan variant
  of the solar cross
• 
  
  Wolfsangel
• 
  
  Othala rune
• 
  
  Sturmabteilung emblem
• 
  
  the SS emblem (Sig runes)
• 
  
  The 3rd SS Division Totenkopf
• 
  
  The WW II Luftwaffe's
  Kampfgeschwader 54
• 
  
  Reichskriegsflagge 1933–1935 (National war flag)
• 
  
  Reichskriegsflagge 1935-1938 (National war flag)
• 
  
  Reichskriegsflagge 1938–1945 (National war flag)
• 
  
  Dienstflagge der Wehrmachtbehörden zur See (Armed Forces, Service Flag) 1933
• 
  
  Reichsdienstflagge 1933-1935 (Reich Service Flag)
• 
  
  Reichsdienstflagge 1935-1945 (Reich Service Flag)

While Wikipedia is in no way authoritative as anyone can write anything they feel like...it serves a purpose as a brief look into things we can reasonably feel no one cares enough to lie about.

Also note the matter of fact usage of the term we discussed earlier, i.e. PROPAGANDA (3rd line down) as the neutral description of what is considered positive information disseminated by those in power of education

[ETN]

The piece is unflattering to be polite from an artistic standpoint.

It appears everyone in the audience has their eyes shut and their mouths wide open. Perhaps the artist is suggesting blindly accepting ideology?

[ETN]

While Wikipedia is in no way authoritative as anyone can write anything they feel like...it serves a purpose as a brief look into things we can reasonably feel no one cares enough to lie about.

Also note the matter of fact usage of the term we discussed earlier, i.e. PROPAGANDA (3rd line down) as the neutral description of what is considered positive information disseminated by those in power of education

Is the Imperial war flag banned in Germany too? I would think if would be easily confused with some of the other flags on the list (that is, IF the wikipedia article is accurate).

[Michael Fay]

Is the Imperial war flag banned in Germany too? I would think if would be easily confused with some of the other flags on the list (that is, IF the wikipedia article is accurate).

No idea ETN...but as I wrote:
don't expect much from Wikipedia .It is not a trustworthy source. Everything on it must be checked for veracity...something harder to do than type in Wikipedia on your browser. It entails some actual research.

[oldflagswanted]

about Wikipedia "veracity" ???

...don't expect much from Wikipedia .It is not a trustworthy
source. Everything on it must be checked for veracity...
something harder to do than type in Wikipedia on your
browser. It entails some actual research.

Hello Michael:
Actually Wikipedia content has to be published source
quoted or an entry gets deleted. IMO it is true anyone can
say whatever they like in print, David Irving being a case
in point. But eventually not without some accountability.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving
OFW

Is the Imperial war flag banned in Germany too? I would think if
would be easily confused with some of the other flags on the list
(that is, IF the wikipedia article is accurate).

ETN:
Regarding the IKF as used today, I note the following...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskriegsflagge
"The original flag used between 1871 and 1919 can be shown
depending on circumstances in different states of Germany. Because
members of the far right have used the imperial war flag as a symbol,
its use is considered to be a "breach of the public order" in seven states,
and flags will be confiscated. In the other nine states, any provocative
misuse of the flag can be prosecuted as an Ordnungswidrigkeit (summary offence)."
OFW
(below) IMO a nice RKF (OFW-IKF, 1st 3 shown) Wiki flag graphic...

[Michael Fay]

Hello Michael:
Actually Wikipedia content has to be published source
quoted or an entry gets deleted. IMO it is true anyone can
say whatever they like in print, David Irving being a case
in point. But eventually not without some accountability.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving
OFW

ETN:
Regarding the IKF as used today, I note the following...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskriegsflagge
"The original flag used between 1871 and 1919 can be shown
depending on circumstances in different states of Germany. Because
members of the far right have used the imperial war flag as a symbol,
its use is considered to be a "breach of the public order" in seven states,
and flags will be confiscated. In the other nine states, any provocative
misuse of the flag can be prosecuted as an Ordnungswidrigkeit (summary offence)."
OFW
(below) IMO a nice RKF (OFW-IKF, 1st 3 shown) Wiki flag graphic...

To your point:
What are the credentials of the Wikipedia fact checker? How many of these fact checkers are there and just how often do they check each new addition to Wikipedia? Just how do these fact checkers make sure the original quoted material matches up with the supposed source?
Also being "published" to Wikipedia means what exactly? Are you saying Wikipedia no longer simply regurgitates other web sites info? Web sites and published books are not enough to be considered "the truth."

To my point:
There is a reason for peer review within the academic publishing world.
Wikipedia is not peer reviewed , nor academic.
There is a reason citing Wikipedia will get you an "F" grade after about the 7th grade in good schools and why Wikipedia is not cited by academics of any profession.

I know this is upsetting...I wish it could be so easy to get quality info. But it is not.

[Tony T-S]

All true enough. Back to the poster though. I still find it strange that the poster would take this form (swaz, SS, blood flag etc) to prove the "anti" case. Why the extra details that would remind one of the old days in such an "appealing" way (apart from the faces obviously)? Still it is what it is. Very interesting and some great detective work. Thanks all.