1931 SA Braunschweig Treffen

[RonR]

I do not know if it is good or bad, but acquired in the early 70's in a veterans lot.

You knowledge is greatly appreciated.

[sgstandard]

Tinnies

After looking again at the hollow tinnie, I'm not that impressed with it. All stamped SA-Treffen tinnies I've seen, had the pin soldered directly to the badge, and the patina resembled old silverware, and was much nicer. Erich is probably correct that it is cast. Even the reverse should have crisper letters.

[Br. James]

Thanks for that clarification, Erich. So, are you saying that the only hollow badge that was actually sold at the 1931 Brunswick rally is the round design? If the oval piece Ron has shown us was made later, just as the solid pieces were, then the only thing left would be the round, hollow badge.

Just trying to organize these comments in my mind!

Br. James

[Richard]

It was always my understanding as well that the round badge were those actually procured at the rally. The ovals come in a few varieties (hollow, solid, aluminum, with various marks, etc.) some of which are accepted as 100% original replacements others which are on the fence and some that are outright fakes.

I have to concur with the others with the hollow version having too soft of a reverse. It doesn't look struck and the ones I have always seen which were purportedly original, all had crisp mirror images of the obverse.
Richard

[Br. James]

Thanks very much, Richard. It's good to know that my impression is shared!

Happy holiday, my friend,

Br. James

[ErichS]

Nice RZM badges and agree that the hollow badge is suspect. Here is a 1st pattern from my collection that was sold at the rally.

[Richard]

Nice one Erich. I'm still looking for one of the first pattern without much success. Hope all of you have a happy 4th as well!
Richard V

[Br. James]

I certainly agree: a real beauty, Erich! I've passed up a few of the round hollow-backs over the years...usually thinking that they were commonly available...and now when I'd love to have one...?!?

Happy Holiday to one and all,

Br. James

[ErichS]

I'm posting member RGD51s Ist type badge to compare with the 1st type that I posted. He has concerns with his badge due to the differences with my example. We have had this debate in the past, but IMO the only excepted original of this badge is the example that I have posted. This has been backed up by a photo of a like badge in wear. Personally, I would not want this version in my collection. What do you guys think?

[RGD51]

Thanks Erich! Guys, this badge is made from very cheap, soft metal. There are periods after the 17 and 18, the pin is horizontally soldered, and the lettering is not aligned like Erichs.
It was sold to me several years ago by a well known dealer in German daggers who had 'multiples' of it. Thanks for your input.

Robt.

[Matthew]

ugh

Not for me.
cheers
Matt

[Military]

Not for me either. The (first pattern) "recessed text" has been shown in wear; but not the raised text version.

Mil

[Br. James]

Are we sure that the text is raised on this piece from Robert, or could it be just a photographic reflection due to lighting? Also, do we know how many manufacturers made bona fide badges for the Brunswick event, and could this be just an example of one of a number of different makers' work? I assume that the normal degree standardization that we have come to expect was not in place as early as 1931...? If there was, in fact, only one manufacturer of this original event badge, then we could expect that all examples would appear the same, but if there was more than one manufacturer involved, perhaps this is just an example of individual makers' interpretation?

And while on the subject, does anyone know why the later RZM'd official badge in the solid oval format varied so far from the original round event model?

Br. James

[RGD51]

Text is indeed raised, the swas incused, and backside 'void' of any makers mark.
Br. James has pretty much summed up the crux of the discussion. Those of you that have these early round style badges feel free to post them. At some point it needs to be determined what constitutes a valid, original, example and if there were multiple makers. Otherwise a huge grey void is created for authentication.

Once again I must say how cheezy this badge is....wafer thin to the point that the wings could easily be bent off! It is 47mm tall and 35mm wide.

Robt.
PS.....I don't want to ruin Rons thread so I ask the mods 'if' another thread is necessary, thanks!

[Br. James]

Thanks for picking up the discussion on these questions, Robert. To my mind, these were difficult times for the SA, financially-speaking, and this Brunswick rally was a local SA event. There may have been more than one manufacturer enlisted to produce the event badge, especially if there were 100,000 event-goers anticipated, and each manufacturer would have wanted his money up front, which may have meant that the product was done on the cheap and the final result told the tale. I tend not to think of these situations as "cheezy" but realistic given the amount of money necessary to fund such an event. As I understand the political situation during these years of "Kampfzeit," many SA members would have been unemployed and struggling to make ends meet, and it didn't help that the SA had a dues requirement separate from the Party itself, as did the other political organizations of the time. The major purpose of the SA locally was to support and raise money for the Gaue that the SA units were located in, not primarily to raise funds for the SA itself. In these tough times of the Depression, every pfennig counted!

Br. James