NSDAP pins

[dolchmann07]

2

[dolchmann07]

NSDAP pins

Hello All, I posted these individually a few years back, and got a thimbs up. Any one care to reconsider. I bought these on the forum.
Jack

[dolchmann07]

NSDAP pins

Sorry, Wrong Resolution.
Jack

[PHILBROWN]

good for me mate

[Wim Vangossum]

They look fine.


Regards, Wim



Freedom is not for Free

[Br. James]

I agree, as well.

Br. James

[Wim Vangossum]

I made a terrible mistake
And well known author of the upcomming book about party pins has the following message:

“From Josef Fuess”

The top badge, made by Paul Meybauer around late 1933-early 1934 is a nice original, and a hard badge to find. The second is an easy to spot fake, made by Nichlos Morigi in the UK. It is an early version of the typical GES.GESCH-RZM badges, that have no other markings.


Sorry to everyone who commented that the badge is good, it is not, it is a fake.

Cheers, Jo

Texst was accompanied with provenance pictures But because I'm only a member here, I can't post them.


Regards, Wim



Freedom is not for Free

[dolchmann07]

NSDAP pins

Well I might lean towards Jo Rivetts response, but I am a paid member, what kind of member has over 3000 posts and is not a paid member. It seems like Wim Vangossum and Br. James are attached at the hip and one does not comment without the other and Jo Rivett says he is kicked off the site, but he is still listed as a member. As a PAYING member, I ask the moderator, why is Jo Rivitt kicked off but still listed as a member, do we not want all opinions here.
But back to my point, I AM A PAYING MEMBER not just a sniper, who makes comments when I feel like it. I post my pictures. And I am saying that these pins passed 3 times until WIM and Jo pointed out that this is a Morigi fake. So SINCE I CAN post pictures, you guys tell me if the example Jo Rivitt sent me and the one I have are the same, I say his example is cold enamel I(I know becuase I too own a Morigi UK fake to compare it too) I know this is going to stir the pot, Here is what I am asking
#1 Why is Jo Rivitt kicked off and still listed as a member ??????
#2 Showing his examples, tell me the pins are the same, I want more opinions ?????
Jack
Remember these images came from Wim's Friend "Jo Rivett......
My pin is the rear one in the top image and the top one in the second image.

[Br. James]

Hi Jack,

I am indeed flattered that anyone may think that Wim and I are "attached at the hip!" I have great respect for Wim, his scholarship and his opinions, though I do not believe that "one does not comment without the other"...though I have not checked back to see if that may ring true! I try to say what I believe to be true, and I often run short of what others here may say about a given piece. To my eye, as I said previously, both of these pins look genuine, but if anyone can provide convincing evidence that that is not the case, I am always willing to stand corrected.

As to Jo Rivett, I have read his previous opinions on WWM, but when I joined WAF he was not a contributing member here. I know nothing of the reason(s) why he is not on this forum. But from what I have read from him on WWM, I think he has a solid history of scholarship and experience in our hobby, and I look forward to ordering his new book when it comes available. That's all I can say.

Br. James

[Wim Vangossum]

I'm only try to help, nothing more. The fact that the first badge is a rare Meybauer must make your day IMO.


Regards, Wim



Freedom is not for Free

[Jo Rivett]

Well I might lean towards Jo Rivetts response, but I am a paid member, what kind of member has over 3000 posts and is not a paid member.

I would imagine that because of the many different fora around, and with most people today being registered on all, or most of the forums, people don’t have the necessary $$$ to become a full paid member of each and every site, and chose one, or a limited few, sites that they financially support. Of course I can’t speak for Wim here, but I can speak for myself, I only financially support one site, the HJ-Research Forum, and I don’t see this changing in the future either. It`s a personal choice based on what I think I can intellectually obtain from that forum, regards financial outlay v/s knowledge/pleasure/etc..

Jo Rivett says he is kicked off the site, but he is still listed as a member. As a PAYING member

Yes Jack, I can only repeat to you what I wrote in my rather patient, and for me, rather courteous and long emails to you, I Don’t Know! Although I was never a paying member here at all, so I think you are getting confused. In any case, thanks to a few MODs and an ADMIN, my account is now working!

But back to my point, I AM A PAYING MEMBER not just a sniper, who makes comments when I feel like it.

I can’t see the correlation here between the very long, detailed, and very clear emails that I sent you, and a “sniper” who makes a “comment” when he feels like it? Going back and reading the mails I got from you, it is clear to see that you are opposed to any idea that your Parteiabzeichen might be fake. That’s OK Jack, it`s your badge, you may feel whatever you like, about anyone and anything.
Of course this does not change the fact that your Parteiabzeichen is a reproduction from the UK.
Don’t feel bad Jack, these fakes are still, found for sale everywhere as genuine, by almost all the dealers I know, from Weitze through to the smaller ones (see website link below), and especially in the USA. Here is your buttonhole fake, next to yet another Morigi fake, this time the top fake, is much “newer” than yours, but Jack, it is still stamped with the identical obverse and reverse dies – just a typical case of a forger taking out old dies a decade or two later and making more. We find this with many badges, and if you know what to look for, you can easily trace them back to their manufacturers!
Now, why did people already tell you that this badge was genuine? How was it possible that you bought it here, on WAF, as genuine, received positive vibes about it until now, and even after a few people commented again now that it`s fine, how can it not be? Well I don’t know Jack, possibly because this is the trend on for a now, to just give a brief look, and see how the thread is going, if others (that you may know) already commented that it is nice, and real, then maybe instead of looking harder, it is human-collector- nature to just “go with the flow” ? I cant say Jack… human error maybe?
Naturally, you can ignore everything here, and continue to list your fake badge for $110.- which judging by your last email is exactly what you intend on doing anyway. That’s fine, and in the end is a personal balance between your conscience, and your customers. But, as a Parteiabzeichen enthusiast, and someone who has spent a long time researching these small badges, I see no reason why I should not try and help possible future collectors of the Parteiabzeichen, and expose your badge, for what it is, a post war reproduction. I tried to do this is an utmost civil manner first, with time consuming emails to you, explaining, trying to help, and trying to point you in the right direction – Clearly you are not having it, clearly you are “going off” on Wim and Br James for no reason, and clearly my opinion of this badge has ruffled your feathers. Sorry for that, but a fake is a fake, no matter how much sugar you put on it, and no matter where it came from.

Image link
Website link

In closing Jack, why i have never really participated here on WAF is a personal one, a 50/50 balance of certain people active here, as well as the fact that i cant upload images, and therefore cant really get into any long debate when i know that i cant support that debate with countless images. I do still read the posts here though!

[dolchmann07]

NSDAP party pin

It is going to stay listed on my site, as questionable and not for sale. Maybe some one will want to see larger pictures and learn something.
Jack
http://www.ww2military.net/About-Us.html
pin 10

Jo, at least you can post again to the site. My sniper comment was not meant for any one in particular, it was meant for me. I was the one sniping.

[Jo Rivett]

Jack, i really did think that by now everyone knew about these badges, in fact i believe that most actually do - but possibly dont mind selling them as good simply because "everyone else is" I see that another is up for sale this week on mili321, as genuine of course. There will always be a few tell tale signs when the same dies are used, even if this happens 20-40 years later, after 100,000 strikes. A good tell tale sign of these fakes, are portions of missing enamel. With the DEUTSCHLAND ERWACHE 1933 fantasy badges made by the same forger, at the same time, there will more than likely be no enamel in the two letter "A"s, as well as no enamel in the letter "D". With this forgers Parteiabzeichen, there is usually no enamel in the letters "A", which as you can see from all the examples presented on this thread, yours included, is the case Although the 3-4 examples on this thread span a few years, maybe even a few decades, they were all stamped by the same forger, using the identical obverse and reverse dies.

Another image link
Mentioned auction link

[dolchmann07]

NSDAP Badges

Now, you are showing me, something I can really see and understand. From the first example I understood only the back markings. From the second example, I did not see it, until I went to the website, now I have cold, hard proof that I completely Understand. Thank YOU, Maybe I am hardheaded, but I did get PM's asking if I wanted too sell them and wondering why I would post something by some one questioning them. I know it was just the one, I suspected both a long time ago, I posted them individually years ago, and in a group months ago. But know I finally get it, I will watch that from now on,and at first glance you can miss a lot. But NOW I GET IT. Thank you for letting me know !!! Jack I would never knowingly stick some one else with my mistake. THANKS