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**Garry M.** · 05-11-2013, 05:37 AM

Originally posted by stuart a. View Post

nice badges just one question why would there be a painted dj badge ????, these badges where stopped in 1934 and replaced by the hj badge, and yet the common thoughts are painted badges didnt appear until 1942 (late war) .

so why would a badge that was abolished 8 yrs before 1942 be made after 1942

The enamelled DJ membership badges weren't "stopped" in 1934 and neither were the HJ Arbeiterjugend badges in 1933 (RonR):

http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f23...ip-badge-6821/

**stuart a.** · 05-11-2013, 02:35 PM

garry when i meant stopped what i meant was the dj badge made redundant by the introduction of the HJ honour badge in 1934 and that they could no longer be worn on uniforms after this time, so it seems a stretch that they would still be making them as late as 1942

**der bingle** · 04-18-2014, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by stuart a. View Post

garry when i meant stopped what i meant was the dj badge made redundant by the introduction of the hj honour badge in 1934 and that they could no longer be worn on uniforms after this time, so it seems a stretch that they would still be making them as late as 1942

i always thought the painted dj badge was much more rare than the enameled one, which is the one always seen........when these enameld ones are seen for sale which is not often.....in the catagory of the painted 1944 gau and kris hj badges.......ive had my painted dj badge for almost 50 years. And yes it has the rzm mark

**der bingle** · 04-27-2014, 11:20 AM

My badge

**der bingle** · 04-27-2014, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by der bingle View Post

My badge

took me a while to locate it.....found this in album marked 1965....the year I acquired it..........any more examples out there?

**Garry M.** · 04-28-2014, 04:42 AM

Hi,

A painted DJ membership badge makes no sense when you consider the point at which lower-quality, painted badges began to appear and correlate that against the history, purpose and meaning of the badge itself. This thread may be of use:

Painted Deutsches Jungvolk Membership Badge

The same goes for the painted HJ-Arbeiterjugend pins. Where would the requirement for new stock of these have come from just three or so years before the end of the war? 1942 was 8 years after the badges were replaced as tradition badges by the HJ-Ehrenzeichen and 9 years after they ceased to be membership badges (having been replaced by the HJ diamond membership badge).

Anyway, there's more on all of this at the link above for those who are interested.

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**der bingle** · 04-28-2014, 05:46 AM

Originally posted by Garry M. View Post

Hi,

A painted DJ membership badge makes no sense when you consider the point at which lower-quality, painted badges began to appear and correlate that against the history, purpose and meaning of the badge itself. This thread may be of use:

http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f23...ip-badge-6821/

The same goes for the painted HJ-Arbeiterjugend pins. Where would the requirement for new stock of these have come from just three or so years before the end of the war? 1942 was 8 years after the badges were replaced as tradition badges by the HJ-Ehrenzeichen and 9 years after they ceased to be membership badges (having been replaced by the HJ diamond membership badge).

In terms of rarity, the first pattern DJ membership badge (with the letters "DJV") is the most desirable.

Anyway, there's more on all of this at the link above for those who are interested.

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Thanks Gary for your input. how many of the painted ones are around? it appears that Rons example has the same number as mine. can we determine thru the rzm number the representation of the maker. it appears that the wear pattern on Rons differs from mine in a very natural way for originality in a badge constructed of these materials. Thanks again Gary for your interesting discussion on the HJ site

**der bingle** · 04-29-2014, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by der bingle View Post

Thanks Gary for your input. how many of the painted ones are around? it appears that Rons example has the same number as mine. can we determine thru the rzm number the representation of the maker. it appears that the wear pattern on Rons differs from mine in a very natural way for originality in a badge constructed of these materials. Thanks again Gary for your interesting discussion on the HJ site

I suppose that Ron And I own the only known examples of this unusual badge?

**Garry M.** · 04-30-2014, 02:36 AM

Hi,

I don't know how many are out there. I haven't seen many of them though. The thread I linked to shows a badge from a dealer site plus two painted HJ Arbeiterjugend badges offered by Beck Militaria and emedals. The same argument (about the disappearance of the market for tradition badges) applies to them too.

The evidence on the original and later purpose of the first pattern HJ and DJ membership badges leaves, for me personally, just one conclusion: some wag knocked them out quite some time after the end of WWII. The reason for them being painted and therefore having a "late-war" appearance may simply be that he didn't realise that in 1942 (when painted, lower quality badges generally began to appear) the people who would have originally worn the enamel version would have been in their 20s, very likely in a Wehrmacht uniform and very unlikely to be pining for their days in the Jungvolk and buying a painted badge to stick on their civilian clothing.

Yes, for these painted badges to begin to be considered authentic it will be necessary to show through evidence that a maker was producing a painted version of this badge in the RZM period. I don't personally believe that comparing existing examples of the badge with one another looking for traits is the way to go here.
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**der bingle** · 04-30-2014, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by Garry M. View Post

Hi,

I don't know how many are out there. I haven't seen many of them though. The thread I linked to shows a badge from a dealer site plus two painted HJ Arbeiterjugend badges offered by Beck Militaria and emedals. The same argument (about the disappearance of the market for tradition badges) applies to them too.

The evidence on the original and later purpose of the first pattern HJ and DJ membership badges leaves, for me personally, just one conclusion: some wag knocked them out quite some time after the end of WWII. The reason for them being painted and therefore having a "late-war" appearance may simply be that he didn't realise that in 1942 (when painted, lower quality badges generally began to appear) the people who would have originally worn the enamel version would have been in their 20s, very likely in a Wehrmacht uniform and very unlikely to be pining for their days in the Jungvolk and buying a painted badge to stick on their civilian clothing.

Yes, for these painted badges to begin to be considered authentic it will be necessary to show through evidence that a maker was producing a painted version of this badge in the RZM period. I don't personally believe that comparing existing examples of the badge with one another looking for traits is the way to go here.
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Thanks Gary for your opinion. Isuppose we can put this one on the shelf, and it certainly wont be lonely in that orphanage.

**der bingle** · 05-04-2014, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by der bingle View Post

Thanks Gary for your opinion. Isuppose we can put this one on the shelf, and it certainly wont be lonely in that orphanage.

no one has as of yet mentioned the maker issue of this painted badge?....on this forum or the hj forum?

**Garry M.** · 05-04-2014, 02:54 PM

See last sentence in post #24 above. M1/63 is a legitimate maker of small badges but it will need to be shown that he made this badge, in this manner. The facts (from the primary literature) show that a cheap and late version of this badge makes no sense. I can't add any more than I already have.

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