Brownshirt help.

[mr bridger]

The old brigade here in the uk have one for sale,

A good early example of a brown shirt for an Ortsgruppe level political leader. Blue piped collar, the collar patches feature two gold swastika L bars on brown backing with matching blue edge piping for Ortsgruppe level. The shirt is complete with all gold buttons featuring gilt political buttons. Party arm band attached to sleeve.

As this is not my field and I would like to have one in my collection, a copyright infringment warning came up when I tried to copy pictures of it to post. Can anyone give me a heads up if it is any good as I know that these are somewhat thrown together at times and a nightmre for the uneducated in this field.

Cheers Scott.

[Br. James]

Sorry, Scott, but I can't imagine giving a review to an item that hasn't been shown. I trust to your understanding.

Br. James

[mr bridger]

www.theoldbrigade.co.uk/shop.php

Here is a link to the shop in question

[Br. James]

Thanks for providing the link, Scott. The PL Traditions Brown Shirt appears to be in excellent condition; the tabs and collar piping look brand new... While certainly not claiming to be an expert on the early PL rank system of the NSDAP, my impression is that the tresse on the tabs should be silver-colored, not gold, and the buttons should match the tress color. Also, Traditions Brown Shirts of all the organizations that wore them had three metal buttons on the fly front (plus the pocket flaps and at the sleeves), with the top (neck) and the waist buttons being of bone or bakelite, not metal -- this was to enable the neck to be buttoned under the necktie, and the waist buttoned behind the belt buckle so as not to be scratched. The shirt in question sports all gilt metal PL buttons. All told, I would not add this shirt to my collection. Hope this is helpful to you.

Br. James

[luftwaffe blue]

Thanks for providing the link, Scott. The PL Traditions Brown Shirt appears to be in excellent condition; the tabs and collar piping look brand new... While certainly not claiming to be an expert on the early PL rank system of the NSDAP, my impression is that the tresse on the tabs should be silver-colored, not gold, and the buttons should match the tress color. Also, Traditions Brown Shirts of all the organizations that wore them had three metal buttons on the fly front (plus the pocket flaps and at the sleeves), with the top (neck) and the waist buttons being of bone or bakelite, not metal -- this was to enable the neck to be buttoned under the necktie, and the waist buttoned behind the belt buckle so as not to be scratched. The shirt in question sports all gilt metal PL buttons. All told, I would not add this shirt to my collection. Hope this is helpful to you.

Br. James

This is for an Orts Hauptzellenleiter....the Gold collar tresse matches the gold PL buttons which would be correct....the top and bottom buttons as Br states bakerlite/bone. The collar devices IMO have been added..and as per usual with The Old Brigade overpriced, Sean

[mr bridger]

Thank's for the info much appreciated I will give this item a miss, brownshirts are a minefield, will take my time untill a good one turns up.

[sgstandard]

Brownshirt

IMO, the previous information is not completely correct. Per 1936-1938 regulations, a "Zellenleiter (Cell Leader) at the Ortsgruppe level, wore double gold "L"-shaped bars on a brown tab with blue piping. The same regulations have a "Hauptstellenleiter" with double silver bars on a brown tab with blue piping. Both silver AND gold double "L bars were worn at the Ortsgruppe level. 9Note: 1934-1936 regulations do NOT have the 2 gold bar configuration, only later. If everything else is original to the shirt, the missing bakelite buttons are no big deal, IMO. That piping looks original to the shirt and the tabs appear to be as well. The shirt is stunning. If I had it in hand, I could probably tell. But from photos, it looks fine to me. I like the way the collar piping is flattened, like it was stored for a long time. If you get the shirt, make sure there's an inspection period and a return policy. Once in hand, we can tell you what to look for, to see if it was put-together or original. I'm betting original, but for the buttons, and possibly a replaced armband, just cause that's so common.

[sgstandard]

Shirt

PS: I disagree with Luftwaffe Blue. I don't think there is a rank osuch as "Hauptzellenleiter". A "Hauptstellenleiter" wore 2 silver "L" bars, and a "Zellenleiter" wore 2 gold "L" bars. I don't, however, disagree with him there's a chance the tabs are added. He's very astute at things like that, but ALL items need to be examined in hand. He's also correct about the seller's reputation being a factor, although even some questionable places have good stuff now and then. Hell, I even got something good once from 3rd Reich Despot! Go figure. If the seller is KNOWN for peicing stuff together, then I'd probably bail. But that shirt might be good - and if so, it's sure a beauty. I think the rank is correct.

[luftwaffe blue]

Apologies i originally wrote zellenleiter then without aid of my books replaced with the haupt...it is zellenleiter..the tabs appear to sit on top of the shirt, no molding to the fabric after 70+ years..could be the photography angle..still overpriced Sean

[yesthatsme]

No more than $550 and that's dollars

[sgstandard]

Pl

Luftwaffe Blue - If I sounded like an expert, it wasn't cause I am. I had to look that stuff up - I wouldn't know a "Stellen" from a "Zellen", to be honest. Political Leader Uniforms are the most confusing of all!!