Adler stamped silverware

[inimicus]

Sorry for the guy's awful pix but there are 2 knives or spoons and 12" lidded bowl that looks 'schloss klessheim-ish' and a juice squeezer. Are these good or jump humped-up table service?

I wont know all the marks 'till tomorrow but at least one is '90.' the but if the stuff's fake forget it!

Please advise. Thanks!

[inimicus]

3-4

[inimicus]

5-6

[dave peifer]

inimicus......unless i had much better pics i would pass,i don't like what i see here.........the casserole dish is of the type seen in the period,and looks like a wellner product.but as far as the stampings,no, something like this should be examined in hand.......dave

[inimicus]

thanks dave - couple more.... (btw some dealers call the bent-wing, cross-hatch chest eagle 'hans frank pattern' - then there's the so-called 'ribbentrop pattern' etc. etc... did such exist?

anyone else please? again thanks.

[dave peifer]

yes,the frank pattern existed and this looks like the eagle,but as i said the stampings on these pieces does not look as crisp as i would like,maybe it's the pics.the ribbontrop pattern existed also but on those i am used to seeing the coat of arms raised.as i said i would need to examine these in hand.the stamp on the dish should be what is refered to as a roll stamp,the stamp on the squeezer looks like a feeble attempt at an army eagle.........i would pass if it were me.......dave

[inimicus]

thanks again, dave! what marks MUST appear on originals, please? and these pix show no crest... david

[dave peifer]

david.....this type thing is an indept study all its own,that looks like a frank pattern eagle.as far as the other pieces these would be political,and could be found in any number of buildings from hotels,offices,dining halls ,resturants etc etc.a lot of really odd stampings have surfaced over the years from many different sources,and cannot always be dismissed out of hand.when ever hitler or any high party member had a birthday many people would give silver table ware as gifts,buying a set of say 6 silver knives and having them engraved with a nice political eagle or initials of the person,these seemed to be an attractive gift of the period.be carefull because a lot of what is seen is laser engraved..........dave

[inimicus]

ok thanks again much obliged - with the new pix are you thinking 'original' then - or still dubious?
d

[inimicus]

I'm guessing the bowl if laser'd would look unnaturally crisp and detailed vs. 'rolled,' right? ditto the other pieces? they look pretty ok despite the poor pix.... d

[Br. James]

Hi Inimicus,

I am in agreement with Dave Peifer's responses to the pieces you present...especially as to the lack of quality of the photos, which make our discussions the more difficult! The present published source for information on Third Reich silverware is by James A. Yannes and the three (now perhaps four) books he has released on the subject. On p.62-63 of his third volume, "A Guide to 3rd Reich Cutlery, its Monograms, Logos, and Maker Marks" (Trafford Publishing, 2010) we find a description of the silver flatware table service designed for Dr. Hans Frank, together with a photo of a teaspoon from that service. This piece is a match for the two master butter knives (or fish knives; almost indistinguishable) you have shown to us. The pattern of the handles are identical. Yannes comments: "The obverse carries his machine incised, official state pattern of the Governor General of Poland. Maker marked on the reverse with: '45' in a square, '90' in a circle, "ART. KRUPP", their trademark 'Bear with 'ART KRUPP' over and "BERNDORF" under followed by 'BERNDORF'." Yannes also comments that: "Identical tableware has been represented as from the 'Castle Klessheim' located near Salzburg, Austria, a luxurious government guest residence maintained to house dignitaries waiting to see Hitler at the Berghof. This was vigorously denied by my source."

Hope this information is helpful.

Br. James

[inimicus]

br. james - thanks much for this additional intervention. I looked at the items today but only briefly, and they certainly look period-'rolled.'

by the way the 12 inch bowl (WELLNER) seems quite heavy and robust. and interestingly the finish which I'd first thought by the pix was heavy tarnish, in person looks like a nearly black 'gun bluing.'

the 'hans frank' pieces all bear a different, fuller art. krupp mark

here are more fotos.... really appreciate all help and responses.

[inimicus]

more pix

[inimicus]

and...

[Br. James]

Thanks, Inimicus. I'm not sure what you mean by "the 'hans frank' pieces all bear a different, fuller art. krupp mark;" as I view the reverse you show in frame #14 below, the one and only difference between the piece Yannes shows in his book, which I quote, and the piece in your #14 is that the first character in Yannes' maker's mark is '45' in a square while the first character in the maker's mark on your piece appears to be '4' in a square -- these characters assumedly refer to the style of each piece, with Yannes showing a teaspoon ('45') while you are showing a master butter knife ('4'). These pieces appear to be from the same silver service.

Br. James