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**Michael French** · 12-11-2012, 07:54 PM

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**Michael French** · 12-11-2012, 07:55 PM

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**Michael French** · 12-11-2012, 07:55 PM

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**Michael French** · 12-11-2012, 07:56 PM

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**Michael French** · 12-11-2012, 07:56 PM

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**Erich B.** · 12-11-2012, 08:31 PM

Interesting shirt! The tabs and collar piping look fine, but I don't know whether or not there would have been a shoulder board for this early color combination. The shoulderboards were not implemented until 1933 I believe, but I'll have to check to see when the black/green piping and black numbered green tabs were replaced for Group Thüringen. Hopefully someone like Wim or Laurens will see this and know the answer without having to look up the information.
Erich

**Michael French** · 12-11-2012, 08:54 PM

Thanks for your help Erich!
Yeah I also had my doubts about the shoulder board, was the first thing I looked at because a previous shirt I looked at a few months ago had a reapplied one that did not belong there.

**laurens** · 12-12-2012, 11:33 AM

I have seen the collar tabs, shoulderboard and piping before it was attached to this shirt. So the shirt is rebuild, no doubt about it.

The discussion of the shoulderboard is very interesting. Erich is right, the shoulderboard was introduced for the Braunhemd on 26.05.1933.

This set has the color combination for the SA-Untergruppe/Gaustürme. The Untergruppe were abolished on 07.07.1933.

So in theory this combination was possible for 40 days if you ask me.

**sgstandard** · 12-12-2012, 02:28 PM

Shirt

By the time that shoulderboards were introduced, I believe that Thuringen had already switched to "apple green" tabs, and red/white piping. The collar piping looks good from what I can see.

**Michael French** · 12-12-2012, 04:27 PM

Thanks for all your help guys.

So instead of Thuringen in can be called a SA Untergruppe/Gausturme shirt? Id never seen these colours before but green automatically made me think of Thuringen.
What do you guys reckon in terms of buying, what the value of this may be? Is it worth buying or should I leave it and wait for a better one to come across

Cheers for all the help
Michael

**laurens** · 12-12-2012, 05:49 PM

The Erlass Nr.1 of 26.05.1933 said that the Ackselstücke, wich was, till than only used for the tunic (the tunic held an Achselstücke since it introduction in 1932) can be worn on the Braunhemd as well.

On 20.06.1933 followed the new order with the drawings of the shoulderboards most of us know, till they changed somewere 1939. This Verfugüng of 20.06.33 says the changes has effect on the Erlass Nr.1 of 26.05.33.

So it's still grey in my mind, and hold the option open that the setup as shown in the attached pictures was possible for a very short time.

Unfortnunate the picture of the shoulderboard is not very clear, but from what I can see is the pattern much different.

It's always tricky to say, but the effects of the shirt wich are in my opinion all authentic came from a source with all 100% authentic items.

I'm sure Mark, who's a respected member here can tell more about it..

I just found the link on Ebay, and I think the price has reached his top. I wouldn't give more. But what if I don't saw the loose effects first

**chrischa** · 12-13-2012, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by laurens View Post

I just found the link on Ebay, and I think the price has reached his top. I wouldn't give more. But what if I don't saw the loose effects first

Hello Laurens.

That is still a great price for the item I think.

The belt, buckle and cross strap must be worth two thirds of the current price before the shirt and tabs are considered.

(Great explenation on order of wear.

).

Best regards,
Chris.

**sgstandard** · 12-13-2012, 02:18 PM

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Your guess that it was Thuringen was just lucky, because most Thuringen tabs you see are the 1933-1945 regulation"Apple" green. The green/black collar piping is from the 1931 Gausturme list, with Thuringen wearing green tabs with black numbers, and green/black collar piping. As I understand, in 1932, a shoulderboard for just the rank of Standartenfuhrer had bi-color twist cord piping. After 1933, the Standartenfuhrer wore the later pattern board, and the bi-color shoulderboard was adopted by enlisted personnel. Since LAURENS has seen these insignia before, the shirt is likely a put-together, with the collar piping being the only original part. If Laurens is correct, it's likely that the shoulderboard is either a fake, made to match the ensemble, or possibly an extremely rare early Standartenfuhrer bi-color board. My guess is that the board may be fake.

**sgstandard** · 12-13-2012, 02:33 PM

Shirt

Please post closeup pics of that shoulderboard. I looked more closely at the shoulderboard, and the strands are woven more like an officer's board, NOT the traditional enlisted 4 rows. Regardless of whether the shoulderboard is authentic or not, it doesn't belong with an enlisted shirt, and also doesn't really match the time period, when enlisted didn't wear shoulderboards. After looking at the collar tabs again, I don't like the wool material either. IMO, without the shirt in hand, the only likely original part is possibly the collar piping. The piping material looks ok, and is attached properly - it just appears to be all too neat, like it was just attached. I could be wrong on the collar piping, but if IT'S original, and the tabs are real, it'd make a rare shirt, even if the tabs were reapplied. If the tabs are fake, I wouldn't buy the shirt.

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