Hitler Crystal

[nd164th]

Is this type of AH eagle crystal the real deal, see this type on several sites for sale
http://www.oakleafmilitaria.com/images/1206so7-1.jpg

[nd164th]

nothing?

[CPB]

It's hard to say.

I'm almost certain that, broadly, this type of thing existed. By that, I mean engraved or decorated tumblers, wine glasses etc. They are documented to have been used up at the KHaus. They appear in Griffith's book no doubt.

But, by the same token, I'm also pretty certain they've been faked. In, fact I'm 100% sure of that. Of course they have.

And seeing as crystalware like this doesn't (to my knowledge) bear maker marks or anything like that, it either comes down to the accuracy and quality of the engraving/decoration (and even to assess THAT you'll need a known original one to benchmark it against), or nuclear bomb proof provenance. There may be some way of assessing the glass quality, but hey. Who knows.

Add to that the fact that I sincerely doubt many of these made it back intact, and you have a near impossible set of hurdles to jump before you could feel happy about chucking 4 figures at one of these.

I'm totally open to be corrected on any if these points. There is still so much to learn here.

Chris

[Ed.Anderson,Jr.]

AH Crystal

My only piece, bought at a Flea Market 35 years ago. Approx 6 1/4" tall gold banded top and bottom. Regards, Ed

[Br. James]

I think Chris has nicely summed up where the hobby stands on the subject of AH-marked glassware. I am not aware of any published research having been done, unlike that on silverware/flatware. I do seem to recall that Craig Gottlieb offered one or more pieces of AH-etched glassware on his website in the not-too-distant past; perhaps he could give us a word as to how authenticity was established on the piece(s) he's dealt with?

Since Hitler and other high-placed Nazis were gifted with untold numbers of small sets of silverware created specially for them as birthday presents and for other occasions, perhaps what we're seeing nowadays is the occasional piece of specially-created glassware rising to the surface, which may or may not have even been part of a larger set? Just a thought...

Br. James

[Obersalzberg]

My only piece, bought at a Flea Market 35 years ago. Approx 6 1/4" tall gold banded top and bottom. Regards, Ed

That's not a well cut eagle at all.....more like a sparrow with extra long neck...and those legs.....

[robs]

I have one example and its the same here (photo courtesy from CG);

[robs]

2

[Obersalzberg]

I have one example and its the same here (photo courtesy from CG);

This is I believe, the accepted style used at that time.

[Br. James]

Speaking personally, I have long felt that most -- perhaps all -- of the AH-marked crystalware was simply too far 'over the top' to have been made to Hitler's order. While there is no controlling the taste or design capacity (or the lack thereof) of admirers and gift-givers, and therefore ANYTHING is possible in the realm of glassware created to private order and given as a present, just like silverware, napkins, etc., it is very hard for me to imagine that Hitler would have approved the design(s) and ordered quantities of these glassware pieces. If it is true that Hitler approved the designs created by Gerdy Troost's firm for what has become known as the State Tableware Pattern (Formal) and the Informal Pattern of silverware, then it would stand to reason that an approved glassware design would be created to compliment that tableware...which these pieces do not. Indeed, the most that can be said about this last design with the gilt bands is that it is similar to some of Hitler's personal letterhead cardstock, but again, not directly. Just some thoughts...

Br. James

[Br. James]

Speaking personally, I have long felt that most -- perhaps all -- of the AH-marked crystalware was simply too far 'over the top' to have been made to Hitler's order. While there is no controlling the taste or design capacity (or the lack thereof) of admirers and gift-givers, and therefore ANYTHING is possible in the realm of glassware created to private order and given as a present, just like silverware, napkins, etc., it is very hard for me to imagine that Hitler would have approved the design(s) and ordered quantities of these glassware pieces. If it is true that Hitler approved the designs created by Gerdy Troost's firm for what has become known as the State Tableware Pattern (Formal) and the Informal Pattern of silverware, then it would stand to reason that an approved glassware design would be created to compliment that tableware...which these pieces do not. Indeed, the most that can be said about this last design with the gilt bands is that it is similar to some of Hitler's personal letterhead cardstock, but again, not directly. Just some thoughts...

Br. James

[Br. James]

Dear Moderator,

Please delete one of the two identical notes below, with apologies for your inconvenience.

Br. James

[Rick C]

How difficult is it to 'etch' glass these days? I believe it's rather easy since even places making trophies do it these days. How hard is it to pick up some vintage glassware at an antique store of fleamarket?

Cool as such a piece or set might be to serve some wine in to raise an eyebrow I think I would spend a hundred bux and make my own set for a laugh before dropping a bag of cash on something so easily (re)produced.

[CPB]

I have copies of paperwork detailing orders of all kinds of things destined for the Kehlsteinhaus, Berghof etc.

One of these, dated 31 Oct 1941, is from a manufacturer of "Glas, Porzellan, Keramik, Hausgerat and Metallwaren". In the order, it lists a number of different items including red wine goblets, white wine goblets, water goblets and others. It gives the measurements of each glass and - more importantly - says the red/white goblets all have a gold rim and are engraved "AH."

"36 Wahnfried mit Goldrand und grav .A.H."

(36 = the number of glasses I think) . Not sure what "Wahnfried" means though.

So we can say with certainty that the glass was engraved. But the pattern of that engraving I do not know. It's fairly logical to assume though that this included the party eagle in some shape or form.

Chris

[Obersalzberg]

I have copies of paperwork detailing orders of all kinds of things destined for the Kehlsteinhaus, Berghof etc.

One of these, dated 31 Oct 1941, is from a manufacturer of "Glas, Porzellan, Keramik, Hausgerat and Metallwaren". In the order, it lists a number of different items including red wine goblets, white wine goblets, water goblets and others. It gives the measurements of each glass and - more importantly - says the red/white goblets all have a gold rim and are engraved "AH."

"36 Wahnfried mit Goldrand und grav .A.H."

(36 = the number of glasses I think) . Not sure what "Wahnfried" means though.

So we can say with certainty that the glass was engraved. But the pattern of that engraving I do not know. It's fairly logical to assume though that this included the party eagle in some shape or form.

Chris

Wagner's famous Villa Wahnfried. Where delusions were made a peaceful home...