Weird Swastika Thing

[der bingle]

I too believe we could use a section pertaining to items such as this. There is so much non military/civil items such as privately produced, Reich era homemade, and specialty that could be discussed.

The safety catch appears to be the same configuration that is on the volkswagen factory badge, that i posted, and the gold party badge set that JWBURCHELL posted under the thread, volkswagen factory badge in police and civil organizations forum. this catch may have started to make its appearance in the late 30s.

[echoe]

rune evolution by political groups

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Schwarze Fahnen, Runenzeichen. Die Entwicklung der politischen Symbolik der deutschen Rechten











zwischen 1890 und 1945. [Broschiert]

Karlheinz Weißmann (Autor)

Geben Sie die erste Bewertung für diesen Artikel ab Like (0)

[echoe]

rune symbol evolution in political groups

i picked up a copy of this when i was overseas. it is in german but it's not written in such a high academic style. so if you've got our collector german, you can get through it. illustrations are interesting.

tc

[Dmv]

Was researching this brooch and found it in Graig's archive
http://www.cgmauctions.com/detail_ar...ach-900-Silver
Sold 10/27/2012 at 177,50 usd

Any info regarding makers mark appreciated
(image from C.Gottlieb auctions)

[TxGauleiter]

whenever I have a piece that I am not sure of, or what the value may be, I go here:

http://www.craiggottlieb.com/militaria-wanted/

You can probably get a detailed appraisal.

[oldflagswanted]

this cross over circle black flag symbol ???

rune symbol evolution in political groups
i picked up a copy of this when i was overseas.
it is in german but it's not written in such a high
academic style. so if you've got our collector german,
you can get through it. illustrations are interesting.
tc

Hello tc:
Does the "Schwarze Fahnen, Runenzeichen.
Die Entwicklung der politischen Symbolik der
deutschen Rechten" book include the cross over
circle black flag symbol as shown below?
OFW
(below) From WAF thread t=101214, post #111.

[Terry OToole]

they ve just sold one of these over at"militaria plaza" the description is that its a gau honour brooch for the "reichnahrstand " don t know how accurate this is but thought i d mention it

[jabnus]

Funny to see this thread being resurrected. Michel, you decided to continue to collect brooches after all? We really should get together one day, after all we live pretty close to eachother. I'd be fun to talk and compare with someone some brooches.


Back to the brooch in this topic, i don't want to complain of prices, especially not if it's something rare, this hobby simply costs money, but after this topic the brooch on auction somehow fetched a price i had definately not expected. Starting a topic and then namedropping Gahr and special silvermarks and such perhaps helped.....
I can't believe however that another has sold at Jim's site for 195 euro. Only until very recently these brooches sold for a very low price (mostly about 30 euro) and i have seen a few of them over the years. Why they now suddenly sell for 177 and 195 is totally beyond me.

One of my sideprojects is collecting these cultural brooches, and i would very much like to see any written period evidence of this one being Reichsnährstand or for that matter anything else with proof.

best regards,
Gaston

[Michael Fay]

"...Back to the brooch in this topic, i don't want to complain of prices, especially not if it's something rare, this hobby simply costs money, but after this topic the brooch on auction somehow fetched a price i had definately not expected. Starting a topic and then namedropping Gahr and special silvermarks and such perhaps helped.....
I can't believe however that another has sold at Jim's site for 195 euro. Only until very recently these brooches sold for a very low price (mostly about 30 euro) and i have seen a few of them over the years. Why they now suddenly sell for 177 and 195 is totally beyond me.

One of my sideprojects is collecting these cultural brooches, and i would very much like to see any written period evidence of this one being Reichsnährstand or for that matter anything else with proof.

best regards,
Gaston

I don't share much on the items I like specifically because I am creating my own competition by teaching others to want it and raise the price.


As for the claim this brooch is truly Reichnahrstand, I too will believe none of that drivel until some reasonable evidence(or any evidence) is produced.
They have the look of private jewelry to me.

[Dmv]

It is no secret that I bought Jim's brooch
It's a stunning piece, you should have it in hand! I saw it and had to have it
It's not a simple brass one for 30 euro. It's silver and is maker marked, so not mass produced.
I figured, since a common medal as an EK2 already fetches (crazy) prices around 100 euro because of a makers mark, I'd rather spend my money in something I find beautifull and is much less common.
That is collecting for me; buying stuff I like (and that could be just anything), for the price I find worth it.
For me this piece is worth it and apparently for someone else too, seeing CG auctions result. I won't sell it, but am sure I'll get the price back I paid for it.

Regarding Jim's description: I asked him about it and he has no proove, he just found in Huesken and on the net similair brooches being described as Ehrenzeichen marketing them around 300 euro. Ofcourse catalogue prices are something different as market prices.
I got a discount because it can't be prooved an Ehrenzeichen. For me it's just a stunning brooch (private jewelry as Micheal says)

Gaston we should meet indeed!

[jabnus]

Hi Michael,

True words, and competition will be bigger for sure in the not too distant future as these items are being slowly recognised. But there are simply way too many "fantastic" stories that pop up with almost every brooch being posted and i keep hoping that one day these items will be recognised for what they really were/are. Cultural collecting has already been damaged a lot by false statements and phantasy stories to gain money by certain individuals.


These items are a lot of fun to collect, but only because they have a rune/symbol on them they are not as exciting as SS, Reichsnährstand, Gahr or other spectacular stories that they keep being compared with. (Personally i think they are historically more interesting than these made up stories, but that's probably just me).

This interesting silver broach came from a "Veteran Flag" (a flag brought back by a veteran, adorned with pins and metals brought back as souviners). The piece also features a "down arrow" as a manufacturing mark. While this item is guaranteed to be 100% wartime made, we have not been able to determine the manufacturer. While it is similar in style to many jewelry items manufactured by firms such as Otto Gahr, this is not likely from that producer. This would have been worn on the civilian dress of a female during the period, as a hat pin, a coat broach, or a scarf pin.

This is not aimed against Craig, but the above is just an example of the descriptions that always seem to show up whenever such an item is posted. What exactly does the above tell us with certainty? --> exactly nothing and it has also nothing to do, nor is it in the style of Gahr. Yet ill bet you that next time a similar brooch pops up we will see a reference to Gahr again, it will maybe even be stated again that it is not made by Gahr, but the hint will be there again: "oh, but it is similar, so then it must be worth a lot?". Yet, where is the evidence what it really is? There were so very many makers of these, many only small businesses hat might maybe never be identified as the makers. This makes it easier to make it more spectacular, right?


Here's something to think about: Anyone ever heard of the Reichsbund der Hausfrauen or Deutscher Hausfrauen-Bund? I'll bet that many collectors find such an organisation collectionwise not very sexy or spectacular, but who do you think wore these kind of brooches? Yup...


Everyone wants to believe that these cultural items are SS related or something similar spectacular, but they are 99% of the time not. Hmmz, now that i think about it, i might devaluate these items by typing things like this, maybe we should stop discussing these and go with the flow? For sure it should be good for the value of our collections and one day if we want to sell a few we open a topic to gain some more attention and add a few hints and drop some names to compare it too? Although, there is that little thing called evidence and another thing called a consciens....


Are you as excited as i to see what this brooch will turn out to be? It would be a very good discovery if it really was a Reichsnährstand brooch that is published in a period publication, let's wait and see who comes up with the evidence.


best regards,
Gaston

[jabnus]

Hi Michel,


Our posts have crossed eachother (im typing this slowly during a late holiday breakfast/brunch), i didn't know you bought it, congrats

Please don't take my reply above wrong, it IS a nice piece and yes we all pay the prices we find the items we like worth. In the end only one person has to be happy with owning it, and that's you.

These items are however almost always advertised as something they are not and always without any proof. Next time one shows up that same false Reichsnährstand story or truth will be used and exaggerated a bit more and there we go... It's only good we talk about them here.

Congrats on the buy, im glad it ended up with you, let's hope we find in the future the exact meaning or background of this brooch.

best regards,
Gaston

[Minnesinger]

I don't share much on the items I like specifically because I am creating my own competition by teaching others to want it and raise the price.


As for the claim this brooch is truly Reichnahrstand, I too will believe none of that drivel until some reasonable evidence(or any evidence) is produced.
They have the look of private jewelry to me.

I don't share that much out in the open any more either but there are a select few I talk to about these things in private and that can always ask for my input if they value it. You know who you are.

I don't buy in to the Reichsnärstand story either. I can think of two far more suitable origins of this piece and that's not counting private jewelry.

[Dmv]

I can think of two far more suitable origins of this piece and that's not counting private jewelry.

Please share!

[jabnus]

The swastika resembles the one used by the Deutsche Christen or Glaubensbewegung, although this is pure speculation from my side.