NSDAP uniforms, without collar tabs?

[Terje N.]

Hi guys,

now I have searched the better part of this forum regarding finding an answer to (probably) a "simple" question .

I have seen several NSDAP uniforms that have no collar tabs,like Goebbels uniform for example.

What is the story behind these?

Were collar tabs/rank insignia optional,or were there some special positions that made the use of them directly wrong for some reason?

If someone could enlighten me on this subject,or reference me to a thread discussing this issue,it would be of great help!!


Terje

[Jeff Clark]

I think Goebbels was following Hitler’s example of ‘less is more’. By wearing no insignia and appearing less pompous than say Göring, with all his decorations and regalia that he wore, Goebbels appeared more “of the people”. Even though Goebbels had the right to wear Gauleiter and Reichsleiter insignia, and even make up rank insignia for his unique position, he chose not to do so.
With regards to rank and file political tunics, you see many period pictures showing political leaders wearing no insignia at all. These were mostly lower ranking party members/leaders at the Orts level though.

[Terje N.]

Yes so I have understood.

This means that uniforms of the NSDAP might as well be frequently found without piping or collar tabs,and those persons could have been most likely at Orts level ?

Because this was actually quite common?

Did all uniforms that had collar tabs applied to them have piping of their colour around the collar,not just the tabs?

Was it not common to have the armband/swastika denote the rank when missing collar tabs,or was that also not done ?

[Jeff Clark]

My opinions based on what I have seen, as there can be no definite answer to many of your questions.

Yes, if a PL was not wearing any insignia, it was more often done at the unpaid Orts level positions. Kreis, Gau, and Reich officials were paid positions. An Ortsgruppenleiter being the exception, since often they were mayors or other local leaders in paid positions.

I do not think it was common for no insignia at all, because after the new insignia was introduce in 39, many continued to wear the pre 39 insignia to the end of the war. So you see a mix of pre and post 39 insignia during the war. (Once the war was under way and especially towards the end, insignia and regalia was not the main concern as materials became scarce.

Some uniforms with tabs had no collar piping, but again this is mostly seen in lower rank Orts level. The tabs always have piping though.

It was only after the 39 insignia that the armband denoted rank. So it was not very common to be wearing only a post 39 armband without tabs, since the tabs denote seniority (or pay grade) within the rank. I do not recall ever seeing a picture of a PL wearing just a post 39 armband without tabs.

[Terje N.]

Ok,I see,and thanks for the info,highly appreciated!

So if I you have a PL uniform with no tabs,it is most likely that he is a low grade Orts,wearing a pre '39 armband NOT denoting rank,have I understood you right?

[Jeff Clark]

Yes so I have understood.

This means that uniforms of the NSDAP might as well be frequently found without piping or collar tabs,and those persons could have been most likely at Orts level ?

Because this was actually quite common?

Did all uniforms that had collar tabs applied to them have piping of their colour around the collar,not just the tabs?

Was it not common to have the armband/swastika denote the rank when missing collar tabs,or was that also not done ?

yes

[Br. James]

Hi Terje,

I certainly agree with Jeff, and Jeff has literally "written the book" on such questions! I think Goebbels was especially aware of and insecure about a number of his apparent 'failings' to meet the National Socialist standards which he endlessly endorsed in every media. He was quite short and frail when it was nationally esteemed for a Nazi to be tall and muscular; he had an obvious physical impairment when the goal was to be physically fit and as perfect an example of Germanic maleness as possible, and he had never served in the armed forces of his time when it was a social 'plus' to demonstrate your political loyalty by displaying as many battle ribbons and military awards on your uniform as you could gather together. Quite a lot of detractors in a society that so highly valued these 'credentials!' And while Goebbels was extremely adept at 'evening the score' by way of his powerful voice and diction and his hypnotic command of the German language -- being quite an educated man, he spoke German like we term those today who possess a "BBC accent" -- in person he was certainly not much to look at! So I think he took his lead from Hitler himself, who never developed a "Führer's collar tab or shoulder board" and who only wore the barest minimum of all of the prestigious decorations he was entitled to wear -- thereby showing by example that he stood above all such rank delineations (while insisting that everyone else should respect them). Rudolf Hess soon copied this simple style: when he received the title of Deputy Führer on October 10, 1933, he never again used either the title or the uniform of Reichsleiter or of SS-Obergruppenführer -- both of which he was entitled to.

For Goebbels, I think he felt more comfortable in the company of secular individuals than among politicos or others who wore uniforms. Goebbels' influence throughout society placed him in positions of authority over everyday life, while his political colleagues seemed to care more about the look of the "golden pheasant" that fell to them. Goebbels is more often seen wearing a finely-tailored business suit than is Hitler or other high-ranking Nazis. While Goebbels is certainly not alone in his desire to wear the plainest of uniforms -- colleagues such as Wilhelm Frick also come to mind -- IMO he did so with the goal to deflect attention from his lack of the valued military experience that was everywhere demonstrated by the wearing of the Iron Cross 1st Class and other emblems of valor that he could never attain.

While Joseph Goebbels certainly could have had a whole line of military-style uniforms and rank symbols designed for his ministry and for those who served it -- after all, his position as Reichsminister for Public Enlightenment and Propaganda was the equal of the Foreign Ministry or any of the several other ministries that existed at the time -- or he and his staff could have adopted the uniforms of the Government Officials cadre, he obviously chose not to, thereby downplaying the importance of uniform services within his 'realm.' He was also entitled to wear the uniform of a Reichsleiter as well as that of a Gauleiter, but he seldom wore either, preferring the unadorned uniform of a simple Political Leader...which in fact called much more attention to him as the powerful man he was than to the group of variously-dressed men in all sorts of military and political dress that surrounded him. Given his physical as well as personal limitations, Goebbels was quite astute in understanding his situation...and capitalizing upon it.

As for others who chose the simple over the adorned look, one probably has to analyze who each person was when thinking about high-ranking Nazis. Each had his own opportunities and his own point of view to enhance, and each used his value within the system to maximize its effect. I don't think you will ever find a statute in any uniform code that specifically gives permission to an individual to wear his own version of a uniform, but as we see in the histories of Gauleiters who sought to increase their power and prestige by boldly declaring parts of other Gauleiters' territories as their own, and thereby forcing Hitler to back one against the other, these were unscrupulous men (and women) who understood the society in which they lived as the embodiment of the "Triumph of the Will" and "Only the strong shall survive." I hope these thoughts are helpful.

Br. James

[Terje N.]

Jeff Clark and Br.James: I thank you both for your most impressive knowledge,and furthermore for your own thoughts and analysis on the subject,I have enjøyed reading your answers with utmost interest,and I feel that I have learned some of the basics behind the ranks,and why certain uniforms(like Goebbels for instance) were worn unlike others.

The PL area is new,but fascinating to me,so I am thankful for taking the time to answer my questions.

Best regards
Terje

[Jeff Clark]

well said Br James

[Br. James]

Personal thanks to both Jeff and Terje! The subject of Political Leadership in the Third Reich has long been an interest of mine and I am always happy to offer something of whatever I have absorbed from many years of study. And I would be remiss if I failed to encourage Terje and anyone else who may not yet have added Jeff's highly-respected and oft-relied-upon reference work, "Uniforms of the NSDAP," to their libraries. His insights and experience are too numerous to count!

Br. James

[Terje N.]

Mr. Clark's book has now been ordered

[Br. James]

A very good decision, Terje, and one you won't regret! Cheers,

Br. James