SA marine brownshirt

[remcovanurk]

Dear all,

This marine brownshirt is offered to me. I think it's an original one, but what are your opinions?







Thanks for the help!

-Remco

[sgstandard]

Shirt

Even if they used metal numbers, they would likely be gold. You need better (and brighter) closeups of the tabs, shoulderboard, and collar piping. The blue shirt lining is certainly not standard. I wouldn't buy it based on the unit tab alone.

[Erich B.]

Agree--I don't like the unit tab but closeup photos of the other insignia would be helpful. I've seen at least one other shirt with blue cotton lining material in the yoke and in the waistband lining, so that doesn't bother me.
Erich

[remcovanurk]

Thanks for your reactions!

I've asked the seller for additional photos.

-Remco

[remcovanurk]

Hi all,

These are the additional pictures which I received from the seller. I hope these picutres make it more clear?








Thanks!

-Remco

[sgstandard]

Shirt

There was an early period where the Marine-SA wore both silver and gold buttons and devices, just like other SA gruppes. The silver numerals make no sense unless the buttons and anchor were silver. Besides, the use of metal collar tab numerals by the SA was rare. I don't like the collar tab material. The shoulderboard COULD be good, but I'm not entirely convinced, and I feel the same way about the collar piping. I just don't like the way it's frayed. Not a shirt I would buy.

[Mike Swan]

No-one's commented on the black collar tabs. I thought Marine tabs were blue.

Mike

[sgstandard]

Tabs

On my computer, they look like dark blue - just compare them to the black in the collar piping, and you'll see what I mean. I think the black/white piping was correct for a short while, before it changed to blue/white, but I'm not positive. As I stated, SA metal tab numerals are automatically a red flag, and plus, there's no regulation for a collar tab like this one, which automatically casts suspicion on everything else.

[sgstandard]

Shirt

Regulations according to Angolia: Bi-color piping in color of home gruppe: 1933-1934. (The Marine-SA wore both gold and silver devices ,and probably buttons) during this era. Blue/white piping: 1934-1938 (Gold devices and buttons).

[Mike Swan]

Thanks for the info.

Compared to the obvious blue underlay of the shoulder strap, the tabs are black on my screen.

Perhaps we'll get confirmation in due course.

[colt45s]

the gold buttons mabye replaced, ,, no anchors on them?

[sgstandard]

Shirt

Unless someone explains the collar tab regulations that have silver metal numbers along with a gold anchor, you're investing in the wrong item. If you decide to sell in the future, the same questions will arise. Virtually ANYTHING could possibly be authentic, but when the item doesn't conform to known regulations, you're off to a bad start. And that applies doubly when you see the dreaded metal numbers on an SA tab. Yes, I know they were used. but the fakers use them even more. The collar tab material does not look normal either. The "doeskin" material was used on SS and SA tabs, but you find it on later tabs, not early.

[wilhelm Saris]

The chevron tries to tell this to be 1934. Was introduced with an order from February 3 and abolished with the introduction of the braids for the lower arm in September 1934. The chevron was continued to be worn for a short while after September until braids were to be delivered.

A Marine-Standarte 43 is NOT mentioned in adress-lists from the Oberste SA-Führung from 1935, 1936 nor 1937. Actually it was not mentioned in later years either. So, pick your choice!

[wilhelm Saris]

removed. Text was as post 13

[wewelsburg]

I have never seen blue/white piping on any SA marine brownshirt,that is what the text books say,but every legit one Ive seen the piping is black/white on all of them except WAY early on when possibly they were in teh home groups colors,but never saw that either,just have to trust the books there.But this blue/white piping during teh larger part of teh brownshirt years is dead wrong in my opinion.Even the insignia removed from a SA marine brownshirt at Collectors Guild has black/white piping,its NOT very dark blue either as I asked Peter,as does this one,two Erich had,one that was for sale at Jeff Clark's site,..I belive teh blue/white piping didnt show up until tunics were the norm,never saw a piped Marine tunic either so ...?.This is a real shoulderboard too,and you can clearly see piping is black against the dark blue board material.And one can argue they are the colors of a blck/white home croup but not so,I checked all the home gruppe sturms according to ALL the tab #s on the shirts Ive seen and tehy all were not supposed to be blk/white.