Hitler signed SA photo

[Yeoman]

http://www.frasersautographs.com/fra...1/23270/PF1864

A superb photo clearly signed by Adolf Hitler.
£5500 seems a little steep though.
Has anybody any knowledge of this wonderful photo or if the signature might be genuine ?

Apologies if this picture/sale has been post before.

[ErichS]

It looks like an early photo with a later signature which is interesting.

[jabnus]

Early photo yes (end 1920's, early 1930's?).

The autograph may be real and one can even imagine Hitler signing an old picture of an "alte kämpfer" at a bit later time, although it seems not that common and maybe rare.

But... 5500 pounds? I don't understand this astronomical price? It's at least 5 times too expensive i think?



edit: i looked to fast and just see the picture can be enlarged. Look at the ink, it's very thick, also in the lower arm of the "Adolf" part it appears that the stripe is made from right to left, leaving a thick ink-dot, i can't remember seeing this on other Hitler autographs? Not a good sign of originality?

[ErichS]

I would be suspect of most Hitler signatures due to the fact that he signed very few photos etc. and hardly ever post cards.

[Br. James]

As a background note, an example of this photo forms the front endpaper of both the 1st and 2nd Volumes of Charles Hamilton's major reference work, "Leaders and Personalities of the Third Reich: Their Biographies, Portraits, and Autographs." The photo is not signed by Hitler in either volume, but there is a note of "A. Southard" on the margin on both volumes' endpapers; perhaps that is/was the holder of the photo credit...?

Br. James

[David North]

I wonder and by say the quite specific SA uniform detail, is anyone able to pin down an EXACT year that this most interesting photograph was taken?

Regards,

David

[wilhelm Saris]

Exact? Difficult to say, but anyway later then April 1931 as they do wear the NSDAP eagle upon the top for the kepi. I guess the photograph to be from 1932. I do not know exactly, but I think I see white collar-patches. The white disappaered in 1933. It is difficult to enlarge this photograph!

[der-hase-fee]

I would be suspect of most Hitler signatures due to the fact that he signed very few photos etc. and hardly ever post cards.

I am not sure I understand: I'd be careful with signatures as well, but do you mean to say he signed more letters and books than postcards and photos ?

[jabnus]

It is also known that he did definately NOT sign all correspondation in his name. Think for instance of the official Christmas and Newyear greetingscards. Many were sent out, but "someone" in his office signed them.

[ErichS]

I am not sure I understand: I'd be careful with signatures as well, but do you mean to say he signed more letters and books than postcards and photos ?

Yes, that's correct. Most postcards with his signature are bad with a few exceptions. Most of the photos that he signed were for presentation and given in silver frames. With that said, there are exceptions in both cases but they are rare.

[laurens]

The picture is from the 2. Lehrgang der Reichsführerschule in München. You can see the first leader of the RFS Kühme next to Hitler. The men are standing for the building of the RFS. So, like Wim said, the picture was taken in 1931.

Also, Hanns Ludin is standing in the middle row, third from the left.

Best,
Laurens

[chrischa]

It is also known that he did definately NOT sign all correspondation in his name. Think for instance of the official Christmas and Newyear greetingscards. Many were sent out, but "someone" in his office signed them.

So, are there Hitler signatures that we would call 'bad' that are actual period ones signed by his staff?

If so, can they be recognised as period or are they bunched with the post war copies?

The paper used would obviously be a give away.

They would still certainly be collectable.

Regards,
Chris.

[Yeoman]

Thanks for the replies. They've been very informative.
It seems that Hitler signatures are a particularly tricky area to collect.
I suppose signed award documentation would be less troublesome than photos as at least on the award docs there must be information that can be checked ?

[Br. James]

I am apparently as inexperienced in these matters as some have alluded! I am not aware that members of Hitler's staff (secretaries?) actually signed his autograph on post cards and photos! I have always understood that Hitler signatures only come in three varieties: original, printed, and post-war forgeries. I understand that Hitler never employed the use of an autopen as some Heads of State did and do. Can someone tell us more about this, please?

Br. James

[jabnus]

oh my...i might have started something

Just took a few quick pictures of a 1942 Christmas and Newsyear greeting card i got about ten years ago. It was sold by one of the bigger English auction houses (non militaria sellers). Someone i knew at the time bought it and traded it with me. I read with my own eyes that the autograph was done by someone in his place (a secretary i think, don't know any other english word for it, clerk?). It is definately not a printed copy like found on for example citations. For as far as i know and compared to other paperwork seen over the years, the paper is original. I tried to take a close up of the eagle to show the details and quality. The same gold line is running all around the card. The bright light comes on purpose to show better details with my old camera, the picture with the eagle shows the actual colours better. Till now i always presumed the autograph was NOT done by Hitler personaly.

best regards,
Gaston