Hello Gentlemen,
posting it for a friend...
thoughts about this DJ musician swallow nests will be welcome
thank you
Pascal.
posting it for a friend...
thoughts about this DJ musician swallow nests will be welcome
thank you
Pascal.
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Straßburger / When in doubt do without...
- Looking for : SS TK «Oberbayern» flatwire CT. -
New for me.. but I like what I see. IMO period matrial. -
Originally posted by Kurt Meyer View Post
Thanks Kurt, I like it too, certainly not regular made but IMO OK
Straßburger / When in doubt do without...
- Looking for : SS TK «Oberbayern» flatwire CT.Comment
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Swallows nest
Hi. This is not an HJ/DJ swallows nests. It's a RAD swallows nest (looks liek aluminum tresse which would make it for a musician' white/subdued tresse would be for a drum/fife player). Not sure what the addition of the extra symbol is for, if RAD, or perhaps a post-war adornment added by someone. But, the base swallow nest is most definitely RAD.
Best Regads,
ShawnComment
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RAD swallows nests
RAD Musician/SpielmannComment
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Pascal,
You could ask you friend if he could see any stitch holes on the white circel.
I think this was a armband roundel of a mulitpiece constuction and they took 1/2 of the swastika to make it as the DJ sign.Comment
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RAD swallows nests
Photo 2Comment
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RAD Spielmann Schalbennester
Standard RAD Swallows Nest for Spielmann (fifer/drummer) Tresse is white with stripes. For a musician, the tresse is aluminum with stripes.Comment
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Reverse
Reverse of this pair with black cotton backings, but the backing material/colors can vary, to include tan/red-brown.Comment
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Nests
It is indeed interesting that the added sigrune appears to be machine sewn to the facing of the swallows nest, suggesting that it was attached before the backing material was added (or perhaps the backings were opened for the addition?).
Angolia's HJ series, Vol. 2 shows a DJ fife player wearing swallows nests with an added sigrune, but on the standard DJ (white/silver tresse on black backing) swallows nest.
For me, as a collector of only musical items, the nests shown are interesting. However, unless someone can provide an explanation why a RAD nest would have been used by an HJ/DJ musician, I would consider the nest shown to be a fantasy piece.
Just my two cents.
Thanks for posting!
ShawnComment
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If you look to period pictures you see the HJ/DJ boys wearing diffrent cloth, they did'nt took the regulations that serious, if your older brother joined the SS you could get his way too big shirt because there was no money to get new cloth.
So I think same happend here.
Maybe a fantasy piece in your opinion but made with orginal cloth that would make it NON- Textbook??Comment
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Schwalbennester
Kurt:
You are right. It is inarguable that not everything was done per regulations. Many period photos attributable to all organizations and military branches obviously lend photographic evidence to this. These schwalbennester may be perfectly legitimate and worn during the period. One could argue, if the backing stitching appears to be original, that they were constructed in this manner - with the sigrune attached - and certainly would lend a stronger argument for originality than if the sigrune was loosely/poorly hand stitched on, or stitched through to the backing material.
I think one point that arouses my suspicion is the HJ stamp on the back, as if to infer official "authorization." Wearing non-regulation attire/accoutrements certainly happened, but to have "official" sanctioning via the stamping on the back? That seems odd to me. Again, this only my opinion! I have personally never seen photos of HJ/DJ boys wearing RAD nests, but this is not to say it didn't happen somewhere....at some point.
Anomalies/deviations from convention certainly promote interesting and educational dialog amongst us collectors and serve to continually make make collecting an interesting pursuit!
Best Regards,
ShawnComment
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... the black stripes on the RAD nests are dark green on the "DJ", same color as the "SA group Saxen", endeed same design as the RAD, but did they exist with dark green stripesOriginally posted by Shawn Southern View Post
Straßburger / When in doubt do without...
- Looking for : SS TK «Oberbayern» flatwire CT.Comment
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Regular RAD swallow nests have a black background and a brown backing. The Tresse upon the black background is for musicians, known as Spielleute white with a red silk middle stripe; for musicians, known as Musiker the Tresse is from aluminum material with a red cotton middle stripe; the bandmaster did wear the same, but with 7.0 cm long frings. This is according to the "RAD-handbook", page 280.
The RAD did not use the rune-sign. If the shown swasllow nests are genuine is even the question. They were not as the versions as used since falle 1933.
Swallow nestes for the HJ were described in-depth in the "Verordnungsblatt der RJF" from September 15, 1933. The basic colors are red and white:
Spielleute had white woolen Tresse, the basic color was artillery-red. The backing in the color for the brownshirt;
Spielmannszugführer had frings 5.0 cm long;
Musicians: as for Spielleute, but with silver frings;
Musikzugführer had 6.0 cm long frings.Comment
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Green
If the backgrounds are green, then I would agree with Wilhelm that they are not RAD nests. I presumed that the appearance was just an improper color balance on the photo. As for backing colors on swallows nests, I would submit that backing colors are the greatest area of deviation on authentic swallows nests, as evidenced by the black backing on the pair I have shown.Comment
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