SA Marine Sturmbannführer tunic

[Jon. H]

Gentlemen,

I have this tunic, which i'm about to trade away. I bought it from a collector who only collect's SA some time back.

I wondered if you could give me your opinion on it?

It's a Sturmbannführer in Oberste SA Führung from what i understand.

SA1.jpg

SA2.jpg

[Jon. H]

[ATTACH]1959640[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]1959641[/ATTACH]

[Jon. H]

[ATTACH]1959644[/ATTACH]

[abigor]

marine sa uniform

i thinks it is one of the most rarest uniforms i have seen

[Jon. H]

i thinks it is one of the most rarest uniforms i have seen

Thank you !

[bahnschutz1]

can you post a shot of the eagle if you have one?

[Jon. H]

can you post a shot of the eagle if you have one?

Indeed !

Not the highest quality eagle i have seen, but i believe it to be authentic.

SA3.jpg

[Erich B.]

It's not an SA Marine tunic. The double breasted Marine tunics were cuffed and had 5 buttoning buttons--not 4 with an extra button above. Also, these tunics were only worn by instructors at SA Marine schools, and only the party armband was authorized--they didn't wear a sleeve eagle. The piping around the tabs appears to be post war based on the way the metal is wrapped. I would say this one is likely made by adding insignia to a postwar Marine tunic, or, if the material seems period, a KM tunic. Usually the postwar tunics were used to fake KM and SA pieces as they were cheap and plentiful for a long time (they were sold, for example, by Unique Imports in the early 70s complete with KM fake insignia). My guess would be postwar as you wouldn't see button closing the inside pockets on a pre45 piece to my knowledge.
Erich

[Jon. H]

It's not an SA Marine tunic. The double breasted Marine tunics were cuffed and had 5 buttoning buttons--not 4 with an extra button above. Also, these tunics were only worn by instructors at SA Marine schools, and only the party armband was authorized--they didn't wear a sleeve eagle. I would say this one is likely made by adding insignia to a postwar Marine tunic, or, if the material seems period, a KM tunic. Usually the postwar tunics were used to fake KM and SA pieces as they were cheap and plentiful for a long time (they were sold, for example, by Unique Imports in the early 70s complete with KM fake insignia).
Erich

Thank you Erich !

Regarding the armeagle, i'm pretty sure that i have seen a SA Marine strumbannführer tunic in a book by Angolia with an arm eagle, on a period illustration. I might very well be wrong though, long time since i've seen the book.

[Jon. H]

I have just been on the phone with a guy that has Angolia's book on SA, and he states there that the SA often used eagles after the war started. And they are not cuffed (most of them), most double breasted tunics does not have cuff's, other than a few, such as the kleiner rock from luftwaffe (and others of course).

As seen here in this period photo, not all have 5 buttoning buttons. Same as the one from Angolia's book, it clearly shows that it has 4 buttoning buttons, and it's not cuffed.

sa%20marine%20instructors.jpg



EDIT: I will post up the one from Angolia's book.

[Jon. H]

Here is Angolia's illustration.

Clearly shows the tunic "uncuffed" and with four buttoning buttons. With armband though.


IMAG0270.jpg

[Erich B.]

Hello Jan-Olav,
I'm looking at the Angolia book here and that's right--most of the instructors have 5 buttons but at least one has 4 on each side and at least one has 4 per side plus one button above each side. It's hard to tell because of the belts worn by the sitting men obscure the buttons and with the crease at the waist. I can't tell about the cuffs, but the bottom line is that it's obvious that these men are wearing differently cut tunics, differently shaped and sized lapels, different button layouts, etc. So whether they wore their old tunics with updated insignia, or were issued older 'surplus' tunics by the school, is unknown.
The color illustration is from the Littlejohn Osprey book--that's an artist rendering, of course, but whether it's based on a different photo, based on a KM reefer jacket, or on the photos in Angolia's book is unknown.
So, it looks like anything goes except for 2 aspects:
SA sleeve eagles were only worn by the Stabschef Lutze and Schepmann on the brown uniform, and on the obscure field grey SA uniform. There's a photo in Angolia and I believe in the Wim Saris headgear book, volume 3, of Brückner wearing the fieldgrey tunic with sleeve eagle. Otherwise I've never found photos of it being worn with any other SA uniform.
Second, I've only seen inner breast pockets with buttons on East and West German tunics, but never on military or political organization tunics.
Thanks for the heads up and I'll have to update my mental picture of these tunics!
Erich

[laurens]

I was thinking about the same picture when I saw this tunic first. The cut is 100% the same as on the pictures. I have better pictures from another course.

What bothers me most is the light color of the tunic comparing with the collar tab base color, wich must be in my opinion quiet the same.

The sleeve eagle is seen on more pictures by different men. It seems to be with the tunic for such a time. The collar tabs are re-attached is my opinion.

[laurens]

Erich:
I talked to Wim Saris last night about this topic. He told me he can't reply because he's suspended!

He said he don't know why, and that he wrote the administrator for the reason, but he never replied.

Wim is real gentlyman, and I think a person with the stature of Wim can be a real effort to this forum.

Is there something you can do as moderator?

Best,
Laurens

[bahnschutz1]

the eagle is what got me. did not think it should have one. I just wanted to see what kind of eagle was on this tunic. after photo I am still not sure, maybe hand stitch KM? sorry you got bad news about the tunic, I hate when that happens to someone to the point I will never deliver it. I consider Erich, as I know a lot of people do as the top go guy when it comes to political items especially these very rare items that few have seen in person. I can say I learned some details from this thread as I'm sure others have. thanks for the post.