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**Silesien** · 09-08-2011, 12:46 PM

Why don't we begin with by spelling the guy's name correctly,- it's Adolf, not Adolph.

**luftwaffe blue** · 09-08-2011, 01:18 PM

You must be an association member to post photos.

**ROV** · 09-08-2011, 04:13 PM

you're absolutely right. I cant believe I missed that typo!

Now lets examine his uniforms.

Have you any photos of his first uniform from 1925/26?

I believe it was the uniform seen in the posed studio photograph of der fuhrer wearing a dark brown SA shirt with white horn buttons, black tie, lederhosen, bavarian? austrian? socks and bavarian? austrian? shoes This outfit features only 2 forms of insignia: the party badge on his necktie and party armband , the latter having an interesting dark border (perhaps an early version of the SS armband!)

This was one of a set of photos which Hoffman was likely the photographer which carries the LIFE magazine watermark. perhaps someone has a quality set they could share to examine here.

Because I do not believe that Hitler actually wore the 1923 SA uniform, this, methinks was his first NSDAP uniform. Altho this doesnt look like a uniform, it does feature the same type of shirt that he wore in the 1927 Nurnberg parteitag. Its this shirt that is my first focus.

Hopefully an AH historian can enlighten us as to his mindset about adopting a uniform as party leader.

I'd also like to have someone knowledgeable about the dark brown SA shirt to tell us more about it. photos or screencaps from the Nurnberg rally would also illustrate this shirt.

Was this shirt the first design that was procured for the SA and SS use in 1925? What were the two buttons near the collarbone for? securing a crossstrap?

The other question I have is the odd cut of the upper sleeve. Were these originally short sleeve shirts which were modified into long sleeve shirts by sewing long sleeves onto them.?? odd

Hopefully a member has one of these shirts in his SA or SS collection. That would also verify my conjecture as to the shirts color. I've seen many many similar cut SA brown shirts but none of this dark color

thanks to members patience as this newbie kicks off a fascinating thread

**ROV** · 09-09-2011, 01:46 AM

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

**ROV** · 09-09-2011, 11:43 PM

Here's a link to early AH photo illustrating the dark brown SA shirt, the white horn buttons, the odd sleeve cut and the double banded NSDAP armband. If anyone has any of the photos in this set, they are welcome to post them here to assist members in our ongoing discussion

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

**ROV** · 09-10-2011, 01:20 AM

Thanks to a painting from that early period, we get to see the color of this early shirt. As you can see from the painting, its a much darker brown than the 'standard' brown shirt.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

I've searched high and low, but cant seem to find any SA collectors who have this style shirt in their collection

**ROV** · 09-13-2011, 09:20 AM

....More to come soon!

**oldflagswanted** · 09-13-2011, 12:22 PM

1925 or 1927 ???

Originally posted by ROV View Post

...color of this early shirt. ...its a much darker brown than
the 'standard' brown shirt. ...cant seem to find any SA
collectors who have this style shirt in their collection

1925 or 1927 ???
OFW

Attached Files

1925hitler.jpg (34.5 KB, 703 views)

**Br. James** · 09-13-2011, 03:05 PM

Thanks for this interesting discussion, Rov. I believe the early dark brown shirt was not an SA Traditions Shirt but the first version of the Political Leader's Shirt. And I seem to recall that the photo in your #6 below illustrates that Hitler was wearing a bullet-proof vest.

Br. James

**Bcarver** · 09-13-2011, 03:25 PM

Now that's interesting. I never knew Hitler wore a bulletproof vest. It would make sense though considering the fighting and assasinations going on. You can clearly see in 6 there is something bulky under his shirt.

**Hoss** · 09-13-2011, 05:29 PM

Unless mistaken pic six is AH wearing just Bavarian attire with a an armband added taken feb/march 1925 because he still has his prison 'plump look'. imo he never wore a bullet vest in the twenties.
This pic is later the same year '25. (German Federal Archive)

Eric

Attached Files

hitler-480.jpg (63.3 KB, 679 views)

**ROV** · 09-13-2011, 11:31 PM

More about the dark brown shirt:

Here's a closeup of the shirt upper sleeve 'cut' it looks like a short-sleeved shirt worn over another shirt. you can see the slight color distinction between the inner shirt and the armband

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

All the photos of AH wearing this shirt show it to be a very baggy fit. As suggested, its very possible that he was wearing some manner of soft body armor or bullet-proof vest beneath it. I believe the shirt was made of denim material which would also account for bagginess.

Photos of AH wearing this shirt which show both the bagginess and short sleeve aspect of it, continue thru Nurnberg parteitag Aug 19-21 1927.

It seems in this interim period (1925-1927) that the 3 groups wore this brown shirt, lederhosen or breeches with tall socks, and lace-up ankle boots with some form of hitlermutze. They wore this or a form of the 1923 'uniform' (when they were prohibited to wear ANY NSDAP uniform publicly)

Considering that the uniform source was the WW l surplus tropical, it certainly makes sense that some of that surplus lot contained brown short sleeved shirts.

This shirt has about 14-15 small flat horn buttons. About five down the fly, 2 button down the collar, 2 button breast pockets:

then there are 4 unusual buttons...2 are on the collarbone and 2 below the breast pockets. The only reason I can think of to place buttons on either the collarbone or waist area would be to somehow connect support straps or belt or perhaps they are merely decorative.

What we are looking at here are the earliest days of the reborn NSDAP.

Questions arise:

1. Considering they were all related at the time: reborn NSDAP and SA along with the newborn SS; Was the dark brown button-down collar shirt the very first shirt distributed amongst these three groups?

2. Was this shirt the first Political leader shirt or was it SA?

3. Was the reason the 'standard' brown SA shirt (introduced circa 1928 ) because there was made a ban on these 'button-down' shirts?

4. Was the reason AH wore the short black tie (1925-1930) to show solidarity with the SS, or did the SS wear it emulating their fuhrer along with their distinctive black kepi and black-striped armbands?

5. Speaking of solidarity with the SS or vice versa, note the early version armband with oversized white disk facing almost completely forward and the twin black stripes bordering the armband. Was this armband the model used for the SS armband or vice versa?

6.Why did AH change this black striped armband to the 'standard' SA/NSDAP armband that he wore from 1928-Sept 1939?

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

The Hoffmann photo session I believe to be circa summer 1925?

**Erich B.** · 09-14-2011, 12:37 AM

The dark shirts can be seen worn by early party members/supporters, youth, early SA, early SS, etc. Some members of these groups wore light shirts--the uniforms were fairly primitive at that point and were slowly changing from WWI field grey surplus to a party standard. The seams on the upper arm area of the sleeves on shirts that I've had in the past were there to shorten the sleeves--apparently these shirts were like civilian shirts of the time, with sleeves of one length which could either be taken up to shorten them or if someone with a sewing machine was available, the cuff would be taken off, sleeve shortened, and cuff reattached. The buttons on the collarbone areas were made of mother of pearl, like the collar buttons and pocket buttons (and cuff buttons often) and were used when the shirt was worn without a tie, for example while on a pack march. The collar tips would be buttoned to these buttons in order to keep the collar from looking unkempt and to keep the neck area as open as possible.
There is some question as to whether these shirts were actually surplus colonial items or whether the brown shirts were specially made. Period sources report both stories, so it's doubtful that it's possible any longer to find which is true at this point.
Erich

**Hoss** · 09-14-2011, 06:58 AM

Erich
The whole studio photo is interesting. He's wearing a working lederhosen the suspenders are under the shirt even the grubby hand on the hip is meant he's coming from land speaking for the people. The shirt is a chosen civvy garment nothing more as a group would do today. The pin and armband are the uniform.
The story of a bullet vest is ridiculous imo
Maybe we should of started with the man's underwear Lol!

Regards
Eric

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