Fake Fuess

[all1knew]

Hello all,

I believe the enamel is supposed to be in a ........... pattern and not the --------- pattern like this, correct?

Any chance for this one?

Please let me know either way. Thank you.

William Kramer

[ErichS]

No chance, an Austrian fake that has been discussed a lot on this forum.

[all1knew]

No chance, an Austrian fake that has been discussed a lot on this forum.

I thought she looked familiar, and I appreciate the prompt reply.

William Kramer

[der-hase-fee]

And here's the twin - or is it ?

[Gary Symonds]

As usual, another WAF opinion without the slightest evidence to support the opinion this GPB is a fake.

Where is the evidence, other than a conclusionary opinion that this is a reproduction?

Yes, it has been discussed on the WAF, by the usual "experts", who always claim it is a fake, but never have the proof it is "Austrian", let alone it is a reproduction.

As usual, the factual response to my question will be met with the response that this is the "accepted" opinion.

That is not evidence.

[Wiegert]

Bill
Looking at the letters in this compared to actual badges, the lettering on your posted is to crisp. It doesn't have that flowing feeling that I see with actual ones. Also, the red portion of the enamel is ugly. Even the regular member badges it has a nice calming feel and doesn't feel abrupt and harsh like the one you showed here.

Look at this one from the eMedals site, and you can clearly see what I mean with my comments.

http://www.emedals.ca/catalog.asp?item=GRC1576#bigPic

Cheers
Brian

[ErichS]

As usual, another WAF opinion without the slightest evidence to support the opinion this GPB is a fake.

Where is the evidence, other than a conclusionary opinion that this is a reproduction?

Yes, it has been discussed on the WAF, by the usual "experts", who always claim it is a fake, but never have the proof it is "Austrian", let alone it is a reproduction.

As usual, the factual response to my question will be met with the response that this is the "accepted" opinion.

That is not evidence.

Well Gary, now is your chance to buy up all these fake /real badges at bargain basement prices for your collection. But trying to sell them?

[sjl]

Fake - repeating numbers, tall "C" in " MUNCHEN", thick uniform letters. Aside from some shady dealers, I don't know anyone who still believes in these.

Stephen

[ErichS]

Fake - repeating numbers, tall "C" in " MUNCHEN", thick uniform letters. Aside from some shady dealers, I don't know anyone who still believes in these.

Stephen

Me either Stephen!

[Arran]

As usual, another WAF opinion without the slightest evidence to support the opinion this GPB is a fake.

Where is the evidence, other than a conclusionary opinion that this is a reproduction?

Yes, it has been discussed on the WAF, by the usual "experts", who always claim it is a fake, but never have the proof it is "Austrian", let alone it is a reproduction.

As usual, the factual response to my question will be met with the response that this is the "accepted" opinion.

That is not evidence.

These are actually not from Austria, but from near by (they may have 'appeared' first in Austria- I don't know). But I do know who makes them...they can be ordered with any serial number you desire, if you're getting them straight from the maker...

[JoeW]

Gary, I guess you want period evidence on the production characteristics of these badges, and as far as I know, that is not available. Photos exist, but none detailed enough to give detail like on some of the police mountain badges. In this case, you wish to accept everything that cannot be verified with source documentation.

I can abide by empirical observation of known original pieces. My Fuess with engraved 72004 small badge was purchased from a vet family member 15 years ago along with a NSDAP LS 10 & 15 medal bar and ribbon bar, as well as a 1935 RPT tinnie. The vet's son had no idea who had owned it or what it represented. I researched the number and found the owner to be an SS officer. He was received the two LS awards and had attended the RPT. The enamel center shows letters as are considered normal for a Fuess marked pin. Based on this empirical evidence, I have concluded that this is the only enamel center for a Fuess marked pin.

Do you have a Fuess badge of similar authenticity that features the enamel center characteristics of the other pin displayed above that has been called "Austrian"? Do you have some empirical data that would back your claim? I think it is similar empirical observations by other collectors that have led to the establishment of Fuess enamel centers as corresponding to the one in the link above.

Of course we are also faced with the evidence that Fuess did not make these pins, according to our Josef Fuess member. I am attempting to secure a copy of the Fuess interview from the archives and will attempt to draw my own conclusions. Whether Fuess made them or not, I believe that the bases where subcontracted to different manufactures and that perhaps assembly was accomplished by Fuess. I base this belief on the different dies that are evident in the Fuess named awards.

[Gary Symonds]

These are actually not from Austria, but from near by (they may have 'appeared' first in Austria- I don't know). But I do know who makes them...they can be ordered with any serial number you desire, if you're getting them straight from the maker...

Arran:
That is great news! Now we are getting close to some real evidene. If these Fuess badges are available "on order" and I can even select my NSDAP membership number as of 2011, by all means, please post the name, address, email address, website or other information, either by a PM to me, or by a posting for all of the WAF, as to where I can order my custom Fuess "GPB".

If this is the case, that will be conclusive evidence these are fake. Arran, you have found the "smokiing gun". I wait with bated breath for your response. Thanks for the help.
Gary

[Arran]

Arran:
That is great news! Now we are getting close to some real evidene. If these Fuess badges are available "on order" and I can even select my NSDAP membership number as of 2011, by all means, please post the name, address, email address, website or other information, either by a PM to me, or by a posting for all of the WAF, as to where I can order my custom Fuess "GPB".

If this is the case, that will be conclusive evidence these are fake. Arran, you have found the "smokiing gun". I wait with bated breath for your response. Thanks for the help.
Gary

Hi Gary,
As you can imagine, its not that simple. The two fellows who produce this and the fake large badges also make a huge range of other stuff, to include many of the better fakes which have popped up in the last 15 years (the "moustache" fake SS cap skull, German Order, Pour le Merite, numbered assault badges...the list goes on). I only know of them because a close friend of mine is from the same place as they are, and if I were to splash their names around here it would do irreparable harm to my ability to stay on top of their offerings...

Cheers,
Arran.

[Gary Symonds]

Hi Gary,
As you can imagine, its not that simple. The two fellows who produce this and the fake large badges also make a huge range of other stuff, to include many of the better fakes which have popped up in the last 15 years (the "moustache" fake SS cap skull, German Order, Pour le Merite, numbered assault badges...the list goes on). I only know of them because a close friend of mine is from the same place as they are, and if I were to splash their names around here it would do irreparable harm to my ability to stay on top of their offerings...

Cheers,
Arran.

Arran:
Let me get this straight. You are aware of "two fellows" reproducing high end German medals including the Fuess "Austrian" GPB, and you as a WAF member refuse to disclose this information about who they are? That is shameful.

[Kyle Harrington]

Fakes

Correct me if I am wrong, to produce items with a swastika in Austria would be illegal surely - ergo:

1. They are committing a criminal act ?

2. They are deliberately intending to deceive if they flood the market with these items.Collectors who are unaware of the fakery would be duped and therefore conduct a business transaction with good intention.

Just some thoughts, seems Arran needs to explain his unwillingness to contact the Austrian authorities ?