Found this today at the flea market, dont know if it was a original or a good copy.Does it have a chance?
-
-
Genuine disc, small Fuess badge ! -
party badge
LOL Thanks great, to bad the enamel is missing.What do you think the chances are of finding a pin for the center?Comment
-
As good - or bad - as finding the disc only. Maybe one of the smaller regular party pins would fit, but I am not sure. Those look quite different, too.Originally posted by NBolinger View PostComment
-
Cool to take a look look behind the enamel disc.
Regards, WimFreedom is not for FreeComment
-
Thats interesting, good find even without the centre. I don't think you will get a centre for it and to be honest I would prefer it as it is rather than bodged together with a standard pin.
Comment
-
I agree with Jon -- it's most interesting to see a GPB in this state, which is almost never seen. To try and recreate it would be a great mistake, in my opinion, and besides, it comes with its own pedigree: it was originally owned by an SS officer!! Enjoy it as-is; I would!
Br. JamesComment
-
party pin
Thanks for all the help on the badge.Thanks
Comment
-
Amazing flea market find. You must have a sharp eye to find that!
ErichFestina lente!Comment
-
Yes an awesome find. I bet the seller had no clue what it is? Some one over the years probably ripped the enamel out, thinking they could sell the disk for the gold content or something like that. Who knows the crazy things people do to such beautiful pieces of history.
Cheers
BrianComment
-
Does anyone have an opinion if this disk would have been attached with glue or solder ? Very interesting to note the fire gilding was applied all over and then the enamel placed in the center. It makes sense totally,but I had never thought in depth about it !
But do you think the number was placed on the reverse before gilding because its still gold in colour or did the impression of the stamping simply push the numbers down ,gilding and all hence its still gilded gold in the numbering? But then there is engraved badges that are still gold inside, so the fire gilding process must have followed the engraving/stamping of the number?
This ,if correct, would point to the award /badge only being made for those who had qualified -not in huge quantities as someone has recently suggested on another thread?Comment
-
Jon, I am not that well versed on the production procedures of the GPB. I did suggest the GPBs alternatively could have been produced in mass with a fixed percentage of overage to allow for replacement and so forth. But your analysis above would not prevent the "huge quantities" from being "produced" in mass but later "finished" to order. And if this was the case, then perhaps small shops like Fuess could finish an order using the mass produced parts and apply their name to the finished pin. His shop wasn't that small was it, that he could not add the numbers, firegild and assemple the parts?Originally posted by Jon Fish View Post
We have found numerous orders to the party treasury offices for badges, but never documentation from the treasury to the producer. Exasperating!Comment
-
The matter of the step-by-step process employed in creating a GPB has been of interest to me for some while; I wrote on it earlier, perhaps on a different thread. From the state of actual GPBs we can see that the enamel centerpiece disc was affixed to the base plate after the fire-gilding process was accomplished; the vent hole in the base plate's reverse of many/most GPBs shows that solder residue is visible inside -- if the gilding took place after the enamel disc was attached, the solder residue inside the vent hole would also have been gilded, and there would also undoubtedly be some amount of gilding overlapping the enamel disc on at least some examples. Gilt overlapping the enamel is never seen -- to my knowledge.
The numbering of the reverse base plate -- or the dating of the A.H. Honor GPBs -- must also have been done prior to the gilding, as with the attachment of the pin system; all of these assembly processes appear to be uniformly gilded on the final pieces, and that means that the fire-gilding process was applied as the last step prior to the mating of the enamel disc to the otherwise-finished base plate.
The enamel discs could have been sub-conracted to another firm. If it is true that the firm of Wilhelm Deumer produced the German Order which bears a slightly-smaller version of the so-called Fuess GPB as its centerpiece, then perhaps Deumer also made all of the enamel discs used by both Deschler and Fuess? Or vice-versa!
Has anyone noticed any difference at all between the enamel disc on the small Deschler GPB and that on the Fuess -- other than production errors on individual pieces? If it could be established that the same manufacturer made the center discs for the Deschler, Fuess and Deumer (if you will) GPBs, then that would be a significant step toward more enlightenment on this subject. Perhaps one manufacturer made ALL of the enamel discs, large and small...?
I know I tend to be long-winded...just sayin'!
Br. JamesComment
-
James,Originally posted by Br. James View Post
I have the following concerns.
1) How do the - few - unnumbered examples fit ? Were they made for an entirely different reason than being given to an awardee, perhaps ?
2) Please look at the example in the picture with gilding below the pin attachment. Or do you think the gild could seep in under the plate, which wasn't fully soldered ?Comment
-
D-H-F, addressing your question 1) above, I would suggest that those unnumbered examples are some of the overage production from a larger supplier that I suggested in my comment yesterday. Nazi state contracts attempted to spread the work to multiple sources, as was attempted with the RZM PPK and the SS-Polizei Degens. I am not well versed in the physical properties of fire guilding to know the strength of the finish and whether it could survive pressure from numbering the bottom plate of a GPB. But as I suggested, I see no reason why Fuess and Deschler might not have been only responsible for assembling GPBs from parts produced elsewhere.Originally posted by der-hase-fee View PostComment
Comment