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**m-e-h-t** · 05-01-2011, 04:46 AM

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**eraser** · 05-01-2011, 04:54 AM

Looking at the high number 86143 it will be a bronze grade there where not that many gold one's awarded

**m-e-h-t** · 05-01-2011, 05:39 AM

3

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P5010056.jpg (246.5 KB, 184 views)

**m-e-h-t** · 05-01-2011, 07:22 AM

how about that one offered as a golden one:
LINK

Am I wrong, that the number is the so called "Matrikelnummer" and has nothing to do with the running number the badge was given?

**eraser** · 05-01-2011, 07:57 AM

Picture's are not the best to judge but i think that is a bronze one to.
Like the seller says Verleihungs-NR (awarded number) the number on the drl badge is i believe a Matrikelnummer and you find that same number on other drl's

The number on sa are the awarded number further i dont know there are some sa collectors around here wait for there opinion

**Br. James** · 05-01-2011, 08:45 AM

Hi Udo,

Yes, I think your badge could be a gold grade, but it is a First Issue SA Sport-Abzeichen; only the Third Issue was known as the SA Wehrabzeichen or the SA Wehrsportabzeichen, and this due to the fact that it was issued during the war. I also agree with your comment about the continuity of the stamped numbers on the reverse of both the First and Second Issue badges; as I understand it, each actually-presented badge was linked to its award document via the number which appeared on both -- only privately-purchased badges of those issues had no numbers. I believe that the SA High Command Office gave each manufacturer a specific range of numbers to be stamped onto the reverse of the badges they turned out; these keyed to each award document, which was printed separately.

But the reason I believe your badge is a gold grade is the lack of highlighting on either surface of the badge. When comparing the gold with the bronze grade, one immediately notices that the oakleaves are shaded/highlighted on both sides of the bronze grade badge, but the gold grade does not include that shading -- in my experience. The gold grade badge is uniform in coloring while the bronze grade appears to be in greater relief than it actually is.

And lastly, the number found on the reverse of the SA Sport Badges is an issue number, as opposed to the DRGM number found on the reverse of both the DRA and DRL Sport Badges. "D.R.G.M." is an acronym for "Nationally Used Pattern" in German and represents the national patent code number.

Congrats on landing a beautiful badge! I hope these thoughts are helpful,
Br. James

**GraveDigga** · 05-01-2011, 01:52 PM

Hi Udo & James

Originally posted by Br. James View Post

Hi Udo,

Yes, I think your badge could be a gold grade,

All shown badges in this thread are bronce grades also the number 186143 by Schneider (awarded end of 1935)

but it is a First Issue SA Sport-Abzeichen; only the Third Issue was known as the SA Wehrabzeichen or the SA Wehrsportabzeichen,

a Wehrsportabzeichen never existed

The types:

SA Sportabzeichen – SA Sportbadge

Typ 1. März 1934 to Januar 1935
SA Sportabzeichen with number
Ownership: EIGENTUM D. CHEFS D. AUSBILDUNGSWESENS

Typ 2. 15. Februar 1935 bis Dezember 1938
SA Sportabzeichen earlier numbered, at the start of 1937 without,
Ownership: EIGENTUM D. SA. SPORTABZEICHEN HAUPTSTELLE

SA Wehrabzeichen – SA Defencebadge

Typ 1. 19 oder 21. Januar 1939 bis 1945
SA Wehrabzeichen
Ownership: EIGENTUM DER OBERSTEN SA. – FÜHRUNG

Typ 2. 1944 SA Wehrabzeichen without ownership, only
RZM (Reichszeugmeisterei) M1 and manufacturers number (only W.REDO M1/100)

And the special badges

SA Sportabzeichen für Marineeinheiten - SA sport badge for marine units

SA Wehrabzeichen für Versehrte – SA Defencebadge for wounded

and this due to the fact that it was issued during the war. I also agree with your comment about the continuity of the stamped numbers on the reverse of both the First and Second Issue badges; as I understand it, each actually-presented badge was linked to its award document via the number which appeared on both -- only privately-purchased badges of those issues had no numbers.

There never existed privately-purchased badges
All SA sportbadges after january 1937 were without numbers

I believe that the SA High Command Office gave each manufacturer a specific range of numbers to be stamped onto the reverse of the badges they turned out; these keyed to each award document, which was printed separately.

But the reason I believe your badge is a gold grade is the lack of highlighting on either surface of the badge. When comparing the gold with the bronze grade,

you can`t compare different manufacturers and you can`t compare the same manufacturer at different production years, to find out the grades

one immediately notices that the oakleaves are shaded/highlighted on both sides of the bronze grade badge, but the gold grade does not include that shading -- in my experience.
The gold grade badge is uniform in coloring while the bronze grade appears to be in greater relief than it actually is.

Sorry, thats "not right" or better, nonsens - not meant bad

And lastly, the number found on the reverse of the SA Sport Badges is an issue number, as opposed to the DRGM number found on the reverse of both the DRA and DRL Sport Badges. "D.R.G.M." is an acronym for "Nationally Used Pattern" in German and represents the national patent code number.

Congrats on landing a beautiful badge! I hope these thoughts are helpful,
Br. James

Thats right, it is a fine tombac badge, a nice earlier bronce grade by Schneider (he started to produced only at number ~ 160 000 )

P.S. All shown SA sport and defence badges on the linked dealer site "Militaria Beck" are bronce grades - he have not only one original gold grade in his "for sale section" !!!

Regards Tino

**m-e-h-t** · 05-01-2011, 02:01 PM

thank you all to bring that out. Great learning lesson!

Udo

**GraveDigga** · 05-01-2011, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by m-e-h-t View Post

Hi,

is that one a golden variant? I placed it between 2 bronce ones.

Thanks for comments!

Cheers
Udo

Hi Udo

Please can you show me the back side of the left sport badge in your picture

Thanks
Tino

**eraser** · 05-01-2011, 02:11 PM

And thats the guy to talk to if it come's to sa sport badge's.

**m-e-h-t** · 05-01-2011, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by GraveDigga View Post

Hi Udo

Please can you show me the back side of the left sport badge in your picture

Thanks
Tino

here they are, only possible with flash

It is a 2nd pattern from Petz & Lorenz

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**m-e-h-t** · 05-01-2011, 02:17 PM

2

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P5010053.JPG (75.9 KB, 161 views)

**paulj** · 05-01-2011, 02:48 PM

I've always presumed this is a gold one based on the gold wash that's on it...or seems to be on it. The number is low enough for a gold as well, as far as I know.

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**GraveDigga** · 05-01-2011, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by m-e-h-t View Post

here they are, only possible with flash

It is a 2nd pattern from Petz & Lorenz

No

it is a first typ SA Wehrabzeichen - SA defence badge " Eigentum der obersten SA Führung"

Cheers Tino

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SA Wehrsportabzeichen GOLD one?

SA Wehrsportabzeichen GOLD one?

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