GPB - SS Mann ?

[peterm]

Yes, very nice Peter! I assume that his BO was a 2nd pattern?

Hi !

I'm sure, it was. Unfortunately most of his stuff (long-service awards, BO, HJ-honor badge, commemorative medals and all citations) was stolen or destroyed by American soldiers when Stefan was arrested in 1945.
The only "survivers" were the GPB (which he managed to hide), a Krim-shield, 2 NSDAP-leader belt-buckles, a black wound badge and his dog-tag.

Kind regards, Peter

[juoneen]

IMO , his personal awards or badges could not have been stolen, That might just be your choice of words, but Maybe "captured " might be more aprepo.

Once soldiers were captured , surrender, or are arrested in times of war , Badges and awards, documents and such are fair game , and now considered souvenirs .

If he was able to hide his GPB , I wonder how it made its way to be sold ?

Maybe it could have been stolen from him, post war by someone who befriended him in his latter years .

Did the seller have any light to shed on where he located it when it was purchased?

I also wonder how an AH special award GPB can be differentiated to be known to have been a persons personal award, as they are not numbered ,and only dated as to that years special award date, and I would assume unless it was found with that persons named document, more than one special award GPB was likely to have been given out on the same date ?

Comments anybody ,on the subject? They are undoubtedly all very nice acquisitions .

[JoeW]

.......................I also wonder how an AH special award GPB can be differentiated to be known to have been a persons personal award, as they are not numbered ,and only dated as to that years special award date, and I would assume unless it was found with that persons named document, more than one special award GPB was likely to have been given out on the same date ?

Comments anybody ,on the subject? They are undoubtedly all very nice acquisitions .

I have to agree with you on this point.

So Jon bought the 24mm badge and Schachermayr foto in March 2011 and sold the picture in October. Is the badge in the picture an "A.H." presented Fuess with floating swaz? Did anyone determine that question that Erich raised?

Peter, did you buy the picture to mate with the rest of the Schachermayr material? Are you sure he was awarded both the bronze and silver NSDAP LS medal? He joined the party in 1930. Would he have received extra time for his military service to qualify for the silver? His photo in military uniform shows only the bronze.

According to Patzwall, Schachermayr was included in the X Vorschlagliste of 10. Aug. 1939 for the award of the Blutorden. This is the same proposal list that included Hans Dobek of the Dollfuss Putsch and included Blood Orders with numbers in the 21xx and 22xx range. Peter, Schachermayr's Blood Order number might be marked on his NSDAP party card. You should check with Mike Constandy at MJC@Westmorelandresearch.org.

[peterm]

Once soldiers were captured , surrender, or are arrested in times of war , Badges and awards, documents and such are fair game , and now considered souvenirs .

If he was able to hide his GPB , I wonder how it made its way to be sold ?

Maybe it could have been stolen from him, post war by someone who befriended him in his latter years .

Hi "juoneen" and "JoeW"!

For those who have doubts and just for making things clearer:

First: the badge show by Jon has NOTHING to do with Stefan Schachermayr. He was only ASKING if it could have been his. Other members in this thread clearly mentionend, that this was not the case for several reasons long before I posted here.

Stefan was a good friend. I got his whole political and military estate BEFORE his death in 2008. Therefore You can be sure, it really is HIS GPB. Nothing from his estate has ever been sold or will be sold as long as I live.

And the word "STOLEN" (if You don't like it) could also be exchanged with the word "PLUNDERED"! US-Americans (I assume CIC) destroyed the door of his home, called his young wife a "Nazi-whore", destroyed parts of the furniture and took away everything I wrote before, together with his privat written records and other paperwork.
I don't want to bring prosecution to anyone (which would be nonsense after 67 years...), but I don't have a reason to doubt it. His wife and his father in law, a Oberfeldarzt, witnessed that.
Stefan himself was captured weeks later. He wasn't at home at the end of war. From 1941 he served as a normal soldier in heavy Werfer-Regiment.

Last point and "in general": The valid laws for the treatment of prisoners of war in WWII DIN NOT allow to steel the personal decorations of a soldier.

Kind regards, Peter

[JoeW]

Peter, there is no confusion on my part over the badge that Jon bought and pictured above and the photo of Herr Schachermayr. My question concerned the early discussion of the 24mm GPB shown in the picture of Schachermayr. I am curious as to the opinion of our members whether the badge is a Fuess produced A.H. example. I thought my question was clear in that point.

Schachermayr was a POW but at the same time because of his rank as a Politische Leiter in the Gau level of the NSDAP he was subject to criminal arrest under the guidelines established for G-2 CI agents operating at the end of the war. I have a copy of the Arrest Categories Handbook distributed to these officers and all NSDAP political leaders down to the post of Amtsleiter at Ortsgruppe level were subject to arrest. That put him beyond the protection of POW treatment and all material would be considered relevant to the arrest.

Peter, is there any evidence that Schachermayr received the silver party long service?

[Jon Fish]

Well his personal medals and ID where stolen from him by Americans, he himself has said this to Peter so who are we to say its not correct? Lets face it guys all this 'captured' 'souvenirs' 'spoils of war' taken for political reasons' amounts to one thing-theft. It would have been the reverse probably if the Germans had won the war. So lets not get hung up on the details. If you have something in your possesion,it belongs/awarded to you and its taken from you against your will, then its theft!

[peterm]

That put him beyond the protection of POW treatment and all material would be considered relevant to the arrest.

Peter, is there any evidence that Schachermayr received the silver party long service?

Hi Joe !

I REALLY wished my English would be better because of less misunderstandings.
I know about "Automatic Arrest". Stefan was a "guest" in Camp "Marcus W. Orr" (Glasenbach in Salzburg) for 1,5 years. Thats not the problem. We were talking about his personal HOME, not about his bureau in the Gauleitung, which he hadn't seen since 1941. As Jon also wrote in his last posting: most of us would qualify this as a crime.

Those things happend and Stefan didn't look back in anger. He had only been sad about loosing most of his decorations and I can only say, that I really understand that.
He told me, that surprisingly to him he also got at least the long-service-medal in silver but didn't care about a new ribbon-bar. These decorations didn't count to much in front units...
Disregarding to what anyone of You could read on "official"-history-sites in Austria nowadays: Stefan was a nice, intelligent and honest guy who tried to help others as long as he lived and spent most of his life doing this.

Kind regards again,

Peter

[der-hase-fee]

Believe me: The problems and arrests Stefan Sch. had to suffer in his long career (not only up to 1945) qualified him much more for the BO than some of the men who participated in the putsch itself.

In 2005, at the age of 93, he stated in the newspaper “Oberösterreichische Rundschau”: “I was a convinced Nazi and still am, even today. Nothing can be proved against us apart from that Jewish thing. Only good things happened.”

What would you expect ?

[JoeW]

Well his personal medals and ID where stolen from him by Americans, he himself has said this to Peter so who are we to say its not correct? Lets face it guys all this 'captured' 'souvenirs' 'spoils of war' taken for political reasons' amounts to one thing-theft. It would have been the reverse probably if the Germans had won the war. So lets not get hung up on the details. If you have something in your possesion,it belongs/awarded to you and its taken from you against your will, then its theft!

Really Jon? Even if the items in question would constitute contraband? The man was a rather highly placed political leader of a defeated country and wanted for arrest. I really don't know the circumstances of the forced entry into his home, whether he was present or what. But as Andreas has pointed out, he seemed rather unrepentant.

[peterm]

In 2005, at the age of 93, he stated in the newspaper “Oberösterreichische Rundschau”: “I was a convinced Nazi and still am, even today. Nothing can be proved against us apart from that Jewish thing. Only good things happened.”

What would you expect ?

Yes, I know from this "interview". The so called "reporter" asked an over 90 year old man for an interview, came into his home, drank his wine and wrote WHATEVER HE WANTED and not, what was told by Stefan. But hey, "The newspaper wrote it - it must be true"...

Sorry guys, You all may believe whatever You want: I am the only one of us, who really knew him. And this will be my last posting in this case. As written before: I didn't want a discussion, my failure that I tried to give further informations.

Regards, Peter

[der-hase-fee]

A controversial personality may even increase market value !

[JoeW]

..................................... As written before: I didn't want a discussion, my failure that I tried to give further informations.
Regards, Peter

Peter, I am sorry you have taken issue with the discussion that was generated from the posting of your collection. I couldn't find you written request for no discussion of the history of Gau Oberbereichsleiter Schachermayr. It is the natural tendency of collectors on this forum to inquire into the history of the collections on display.

And we are left with the mystery the photo showing the apparent Fuess GPB on his lapel. A potential A.H. Fuess GPB?