Swing Dancing prohibited

[dolchmann07]

WW2 “SWING TANZEN VERBOTEN!”ENAMEL SIGN
During the Nazi era, jazz music and swing dancing were prohibited. Therefore these 17 X 12 cm enamel signs with the text SWING TANZEN VERBOTEN! – REICHSKULTURKAMMER (Swing dancing prohibited – Reichs-Culture Chamber) were placed by the entrance of bars, dancing’s and clubs.
What do you think. Jack

[ETN]

Well, it looks pretty cool, but now that I think about it, I've never seen an enameled sign with additional grommets installed at the four corners like that.

An accepted variation?

[tgn]

Maybe a movie prop from that rather poor movie made years ago about swing dancing in Nazi Germany ??

Tom

[dolchmann07]

Swing Dancing prohibited

No, I have seen that movie, I had it years before the movie.
Jack

[Darin S.]

The film was called "Swing Kids". Phillip Baker was a consultant on the set of the film. I've seen the "Nord Hamburg" triangle and shoulder straps from the film on Ebay before. Easy to spot the triangle is red lettered and bordered and the insignia is all silk screened. Rumor is that Baker told them the insignia was all wrong but the insignia had already been applied to the costumes so they used it anyway. Sorry for hijacking the thread.

The sign could be a prop from the film. I don't know anything about metal signs, just a guess.

[dolchmann07]

Swing Dancing prohibited

.

The sign could be a prop from the film. I don't know anything about metal signs, just a guess.

I owned this way before the film came out !!! Plus I really doubt they would of made a sign of this quality when all they would of had to do is print one on paper. This sign is made just like the old period made signs were made.
Jack

[tgn]

Doesn't help you on determining the originality of the sign, but here is some more information:

http://www.cwporter.com/swing.htm

Tom

[dolchmann07]

Swing Dancing

Doesn't help you on determining the originality of the sign, but here is some more information:

http://www.cwporter.com/swing.htm

Tom

Actually it does help, this is what I always suspected and it confirms my suspicion. I will read it more closely later and look at all the links, but this is a great link. And we all know the extent the fakers went to in the UK in the late 60's early 1970's. I thank you for your post. Jack

[dolchmann07]

SWing Tanzen Verboten

Tom, The link did provide me with a ton of valuable information. I appreciate the link too: http://www.cwporter.com/swing.htm
After reading the full article and seeing at the end "MADE IN RUSSIA - THE HOLOCO$T " and these are just a few articles by the same author
http://www.cwporter.com/hoess.htm and http://www.cwporter.com/anatliar.htm , I really do not think the author of the link listed has any credibility. I also saw fakes of the sign and some others that looked old. (It don't Mean a Thing") And these links: http://papabecker.com/swingtimeforhitler.htm , http://www.flickr.com/photos/mongibeddu/3284446233/ , http://www.blingcheese.com/video-4/goth+letter.htm found in wikipedia, (which also don't Mean a thing)
Needless to say, Hitler was not fond of modernism in the arts, which included music; in the Nazi party's program of February 1920, he threatened to enforce future governmental laws against such inclinations in art and literature. Even though he never publicly spoke out against jazz specifically in the Weimar Republic, it can be inferred that Hitler's sentiments toward jazz must have strong ties to his perception of racial hierarchy, with jazz, not surprisingly, being at the most bottom. Joseph Goebbels, the Reich Minister of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda, had hoped to convince and persuade the public via anti-Jazz propaganda before 1935, rather than prohibit Jazz. However, jazz was officially banned in 1935 (WFMU Staff). In 1935, The situation intensified in 1942 with the entry of the United States in the war. For diplomats of foreign embassies and Wehrmacht members a couple of jazz clubs continued to remain open in Berlin. In addition, there were individual, not legitimate venues and private parties, where jazz was played. In 1943 the record production was stopped. The Swing-Jugend, or Swing Youth, was a movement among mainly youth from 14–20 years old who dressed, danced, and listened to jazz in defiance to the Nazi regime. The Nazi party acted against this movement by detaining several of the young leaders of the Swing Youth and sending them to concentration camps. The Nazi regime passed notorious edicts banning jazz records and muted trumpets calling them degenerate art or entartete Kunst. “Degenerate Music” was an exhibit sponsored by the Nazi regime which singled out “degeneracy” or the use of atonal music, jazz, discordant-sounding organization of tones and the individual composers and conductors, both of Aryan and non-Aryan descent. The “Degenerative Music” exhibit actually had the opposite effect of what the Nazis had hoped because soldiers became interested in the real jazz (Potter). The documentary film "Swing Under the Swastika" looks at Jazz music under the Nazi regime in Germany, and at the cases of the Madlung sisters who were sent to Ravensbruck concentration camp merely for owning jazz records. There are also interviews with jazz drummer and guitarist Coco Schumann and pianist Martin Roman who were saved in the camps so they could and had to play for SS officers and during executions in Auschwitz as part of the `Ghetto Swingers'.

I do not know what the truth is, but the more I read the more I like my sign. Here is a example of another sign. This is very interesting, I heard the Movie was terrible, it came out in 1993 and starred Noah Wyle of the show ER.
It also sounds like another one of those double standards, where it was ok for the officers, but not ok for the general public.
Jack
By the way, the slogan was re-used to hype a 4 record or CD set in the 1970's that was releasesd in the UK, by calling the record set SWing Tanzen Verboten , but that was all it was, hype to sell a record. A lot of albums are titled to give them hype to help sales. But this has all been real entertaining and educational.

[BEB9]

Apologies if this has been posted here before... but I didn't think you could have a thread talking about swing music in the Drittes Reich without mentioning Charlie and his Orchestra:

In the 1930's the Nazis had the same love/hate relationship with swing music. They outlawed it on their homefront, throwing it into the category of "degenerate" art. But at the same time, they employed it in the service of the fatherland. Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's propaganda minister, assembled a fairly competent swing band called Charlie and His Orchestra to perform Nazified versions of the jazz hits of the day. Led by an English speaking German, Karl Schwendler, Charlie and His Orchestra broadcast on the medium-wave and short-wave bands throughout the 1930s to Canada, the US and Britain.

The idea was to lure the masses in with the irrestible tonic of swing music and then slyly work in the anti-Jewish, American and British lyrics after the second or third verse. The broadcasts of Charlie and His Orchestra were not available in the Fatherland proper, but that only enhanced their legend, and they picked up an underground following in Germany as well.

If you have never heard them before, have a listen, they are absolutely hilarious. You can download all of the songs here:

http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2005/1...more_nazi.html
http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2005/0...e_and_his.html

Cheers

Nicole

[Robin Lumsden]

Well, it looks pretty cool, but now that I think about it, I've never seen an enameled sign with additional grommets installed at the four corners like that.

An accepted variation?

Yes ................... I've seen several original enamel signs with grommets.

[dolchmann07]

sign

The film was called "Swing Kids". Phillip Baker was a consultant on the set of the film. I've seen the "Nord Hamburg" triangle and shoulder straps from the film on Ebay before. Easy to spot the triangle is red lettered and bordered and the insignia is all silk screened. Rumor is that Baker told them the insignia was all wrong but the insignia had already been applied to the costumes so they used it anyway. Sorry for hijacking the thread.

The sign could be a prop from the film. I don't know anything about metal signs, just a guess.

I have seen bits and scenes from the movie, and I watched a few clips today, if they could not go to the effort of making even the simple things hsitorically accurate. I sincerly doubt they would of made heavy steel, vaulted sign with the expensive process of doing it from enamel, and use the same thickness steel as my other signs, that I know are period. I think they would of printed a sign or painted a sign on metal or cardboard. And I have seen modern signs, they just are not the same quality as this one, I pulled out my NSDAP signs, my Blut und Boden sign and a couple of Fire warning signs and the backs of all of them and the weight of steel and for the most part the thickness is the same
and all of my signs are vaulted. I am begining to like this sign, more and more Thanks for all the responses, Jack

[Jo Rivett]

I sincerly doubt they would of made heavy steel, vaulted sign with the expensive process of doing it from enamel,

Jack, spot on, no way they would have, when we look at other movie props, badges uniforms etc.... I like it too. Anyone looked through the book Wilm Saris did last year on enamel signs? maybe there is another in it? or more with holes for the screws ?

[Minnesinger]

Well the Swing-signs are still made as novelty items. I think I saw two different versions in the same shop in Hamburg a year ago or so. Don't know if any of them was vaulted though.

[Minnesinger]

Left out the important part. The one in the first picture is a model that is being produced today.