Help with Insignia

[amberg1853]

I picked up a little pile of insignia and cannot figure out exactly what these patches are. "32" patch I believe is NSKK, musicians collar tab but what organization? The gray collar tab and shoulder board seem to share the same color. Thanks in advance,

Brian

[Pascal Bernhard]

-shoulder board = SA foot rgt
-grey collar tab = unissued tab for SA group "Sudetenland" or "Weichsel" if I remember well...
- musician brown tab seams to be SA too

[DEBERTEX]

Kwz

Hello,

KWZ 2 / I / 250 = Kraft-Wagen-Zug 2. Sturm / I Sturmbann / SA-Standarte 250 (= Transport platoon of 2. company / I batallion / SA regiment 250)

This insignia was worn very early... if I remember well even before 1933.

Best regards

[Guymauve]

Hi
Kraftwagenzug 2, Kraftwagen Bereitschaft I, Kraftwagen Abteilung 250
worn by the nskk during the period 1933/35 on the left arm.
Cheers

[DEBERTEX]

Hello,

A question to Guymauve : is this lot Motor-SA or NSKK ?

What is the meaning of the strip ?

KWZ 2 / I / 65 = Kraft-Wagen-Zug 2. Sturm / I Sturmbann / SA-(Motor)Standarte 65 (= Transport platoon of 2. company / I batallion / SA regiment 65)... as I think.

or :
Kraftwagenzug 2 / Kraftwagen Bereitschaft I / Kraftwagen Abteilung 65... of the NSKK.

Best regards

[sgstandard]

insignia

Collar tabs are SA Gruppe "Ostland" if the pip is gold. SA Gruppe "Westfalen" if the pip is silver. The strip is NSKK according to another member.

[sgstandard]

Tabs

I forgot to mention they ARE Motor SA tabs. The Motor SA was absorbed into the NSKK in 1934.

[DEBERTEX]

Hello,

Thanks for your contibution, sgstandard, but my post was a demonstration that Guymauve was wrong when saying the strip is an NSKK insignia. The strip is a Motor-SA insignia.

We have here a complete set for a Motor-SA member and as you see the strip matches with the other patches.

I think it is for SA-Standarte (Motor) 65 (Detmold) / SA-Gruppe Westfalen.

Best regards

[Guymauve]

Hi Debertex
no problem with me if you think that I am wrong
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=402393
Thanks for your demonstration
Cheers

[sgstandard]

Tabs

Motor SA makes more sense, since the strip is in a Gruppe color. NSKK, though, did have Gruppe colors on the edges of the enlisted shoulderboards, and Gruppe colors on the cloth cap insignia. The fact that the strip is the same unit as the tabs seems to seal the deal.

[DEBERTEX]

Hello,

What bothers me, here, is the todays interpretation of the arabic and roman numerals. The german army regulations says (and the organisations used of course this regulations) :

_platoon in roman (Zug, Trupp)
_company in arabic (Kompanie, Sturm and even Bereitschaft)
_batallion in roman (Bataillon, Abteilung, Sturmbann)
_regiment in arabic (Regiment, Standarte)
_ect...

Why would it be different within the Motor-SA or the early NSKK ? That means, IMHO, 1 transport platoon ("the" transport platoon not numbered and just called "KWZ") in each company.

I have the Angolia and Littlejohn NSKK book who says what you say... and nothing personal, Guymauve, I'm not "sure" that you are wrong and "sure" that I'm right ! I try to clear what is still unclear for me because historical investigation is a great pleasure.

Best regards

[Guymauve]

Hi
I have discussed ( in french, on a french forum) these colour strips here :
http://reichsleiter-forum.xooit.fr/t...KK-1931-36.htm
On the pics :
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=402393
you see that the men with the tunics have the kepi with the nskk eagle, the "K" collar patches and 2 strips on the left arm.
- one for the unit
- one for the "Dienstgradabzeichen" :
1 silver strip for the Kraftwagenzugführer
2 silver strips for the Kraftwagenbereitschaftsführer
3 silver strips for the Kraftwagenabteilungsführer
The Gruppenstaffelführer and the Korpsführer have to wear the same collar patches as the Motor-SA

Sometime you can find colour pointed strips like yours :
KWZ 2/I/65
KWB I/65 ... for Bereitschaft, not Sturmbann!
Difficult to me to speak in english, I was a short time at school!
Cheers

[DEBERTEX]

KWZ 2 / I / 65 should not mean KWZ N° 2, but KWZ (a platoon as part of) the 2nd company
KWB I / 65 should not mean KWB N° I, but KWB (a company as part of) the I batallion.

... it would be against the german regulation of writing the units if you are right. That could be possible, of course and my mind is open to all the exceptions.

On the picture you refer, the other NSKK members don't have this kind of strip. Why, if it's an NSKK insignia ?

I think the officer came from the Motor-SA and still wears his insignias...

Best regards