A couple of Cultural items

[Michael Fay]

The textile information here is very interesting. Steve T's last post should be the subject of much consideration. Likewise Michael introduction of pre- and post-III Reich production.

But something has me a bit confused. We speak of Deutsches Heimatwerk tapestries being created in weaving mills. Yet this appears contrary to the purpose or focus of the DHW. I offer this statement from the 1940 DHW catalog mentioned earlier in this titanic thread.



This is my attempt at translation. Forgive my ineptitude.

Rural Craft-Culture

The products of the Deutschen Heimatswerkes are made by peasant and farm handicraft. The sales of these products of rural handiwork brings peasants, small farmers, country-helpers the additional income necessary for the existence of the farmer and with it the possibility, to find a living in the countryside, and there, to remain. Their work, their adherence to Anthro-Cultural History (Ahnenerbe) of the race are the foundations of the rural community-culture in present and future.

This statement seems to contradict any idea of mass production, weaving mills and the like. What happened? Are the items mass produced or handiwerk?

Examing my Teppich that I bought back in 2006 out of Germany, I am struck by the crude quality of the weaving.



Obviously damaged by sunlight, the texture of the textile is rough; crude at times. Notice the weave and thread size in this photo showing the front (right) and reverse (left).



The base thread structure seems almost canvas quality. Hardly the product of a modern 1930s mill. Or am I expecting too much from the industrial revolution?

Yes, you point out one of those conundrums of the SS.
In the SS=Familie book it is expressly stated that to get a geburstag ring (wooden ring birthday candle) you must go to your local rustic wheelwright carpenter and commision him to do your wood work for cultural items.
And then here comes the DHW seeming to emphasize a sense of mass production.
TR and SS are always in contradition on some level it seems.

[Michael Fay]

Time for my beloved little red sweet pillow!

So is this an example you have full faith in it's being made by the DHW?

[Thorsten B.]

"...you must go to your local rustic wheelwright carpenter and commision him to do your wood work for cultural items."


Michael,

Since you didn´t get the point regarding the production of the Geburtstagsring and other SS cultural items you draw wrong conclusions regarding DHW and SS cultural items.

"TR and SS are always in contradition on some level it seems."


There is no contradiction - the SS was just: Not for everybody.

[Matthäus Klein]

this is a very informative thread

[Thorsten B.]

Hi Matthäus,

Welcome to the forum!

You are always invited to ask any possible questions regarding contents of threads that pop up in your mind - so never hesitate to ask.

[Michael Fay]

for Joe and everyone else on WAF

"...you must go to your local rustic wheelwright carpenter and commision him to do your wood work for cultural items."


Michael,

Since you didn´t get the point regarding the production of the Geburtstagsring and other SS cultural items you draw wrong conclusions regarding DHW and SS cultural items.

"TR and SS are always in contradition on some level it seems."


There is no contradiction - the SS was just: Not for everybody.

I was not talking to you, but since you insist on spreading more negativity I will point out that in your own words to me you complain bitterly of the "spreading of negativity and being hateful "
Why are you being hateful and spreading negativity?

While you dont deserve the respect of an honest scholarly discourse, Joe and the rest of WAF does:
there are most obvious signs of contraditions in the SS. It was an endemic part of the political operation of the Third Reich. Hitler set it up that way on purpose for various reasons one being his position was assured from rivals and those most talented or ambitious would keep up a certian directionless dynaminism (this is an SS trait and a Fascist trait in general ) . This ideological or cultural habit of Hitler's designed political aspects of the TR passed on through the SS.
Contradictory forces meant internal rivalry and the openness to contradict an earlier idea or have rival ideas both promoted at the same time.
Notice Darres fall. Notice Rosenberg and Himmler ever dualing over control of religious and political ideology.
"Contradiction" was one the main characteristics of the Third Reich.

And all you do thorsten is spread as you say "negativity" and try to sell things for a profit.
Not much credibility in your corner.

[Thorsten B.]

[Steve T]

Steve, are you talking about Joe's reddish teppich?
I think you are and say in your opinion it is a correct make for the TR era?. I just want to be clear here. You think it may have been a curtain? And you say it was discussed on WAF before... I dont remember that, but I may have missed it.
I like Joe's teppich .

Michael, yes Joe's tapestry. Its exactly what I would expect for a TR period piece, and very likely before and after. How would we know when it was made if we don't have the information from the original owner/seller? Also does it really matter because you won't be able to tell by looking at it whether is 1929, 1949? Its not likely that anything changed in the materials or construction method.

I'm not saying its a curtain, but I think that was suggested at some point, not sure if it was on this forum. It's made just like a wall hanging, obviously without loops but as we know, clip hanging systems or home made hangers could be used as well. Tapestry has been used in place of a solid door too, a type of curtain in effect, but I'v not seen and DHW style examples like that.

I like it too.

[Capt. R]

Wow, lots of activity on this "thread" (haha) that I missed until now - but it is apparent that as a whole we've had the "wool" pulled over our collective eyes!

I may have missed it, but where did that 60's/70's looking photo of the woman at the loom come from? and was it in fact a former DHW factory? no doubt they used the same punch card! and Minnesinger - where did you find that photo of the other style/pattern on loom??

The evidence seems to say CAUTION. A good question to ask is why were they continuing to produce these DHW/TR styles after the war??

BTW, Steve, that is a beautiful ss corner you have there!
Thanks to all for sharing their info and evidence.

[Michael Fay]

Nett Teppiche

Michael, yes Joe's tapestry. Its exactly what I would expect for a TR period piece, and very likely before and after. How would we know when it was made if we don't have the information from the original owner/seller? Also does it really matter because you won't be able to tell by looking at it whether is 1929, 1949? Its not likely that anything changed in the materials or construction method.

I'm not saying its a curtain, but I think that was suggested at some point, not sure if it was on this forum. It's made just like a wall hanging, obviously without loops but as we know, clip hanging systems or home made hangers could be used as well. Tapestry has been used in place of a solid door too, a type of curtain in effect, but I'v not seen and DHW style examples like that.

I like it too.

O.K, now were getting somewhere.
I appreciate your admittance that it could be a bit before or after... that is a reasonable and honest stance.
Somthing needed around here these days-a real breath of fresh air.

I must point out that even info from original owner/seller has the same old issues as any other item of TR era.
The story is "just a story"... but still, better than nothing in some cases as the piece itself may show promise in the ways you suggest .

Yes, this type does not have loops. I know well ...

I like Joe's so much, I got one just like it.I have shown it on WAF already, but here it is again for educational purposes. It is really coarse to the tactile touch,
and best of all it was from an honorable seller and was an extreme bargain too- adequately reflecting the risk of such items. Not like the high prices on WAF lately.

[Capt. R]

...fine DHW tapestry - enjoy!

Post #937 looks similar to the one on the loom in Michael's photo unless I am missing something?

[Michael Fay]

the trouble with teppich

Post #937 looks similar to the one on the loom in Michael's photo unless I am missing something?

Good eye. It is very very similar-but not 100 % exactly the same I think. seems a type of pattern well known on this thread despite objections to the otherwise.

[Jack83]

this is a very informative thread

And entertaining!

Is anyone keeping score between Thorsten and Michael?

In all seriousness though, I have learned a great deal in these pages. I really do love all this cultural stuff from that time period, mostly because it's almost unbelievable that this stuff originated from such a terrible point in history. I almost forget it's from the TR!

[JoeW]

O.K, now were getting somewhere.
I appreciate your admittance that it could be a bit before or after... that is a reasonable and honest stance.
Somthing needed around here these days-a real breath of fresh air.

I must point out that even info from original owner/seller has the same old issues as any other item of TR era.
The story is "just a story"... but still, better than nothing in some cases as the piece itself may show promise in the ways you suggest .

Yes, this type does not have loops. I know well ...

I like Joe's so much, I got one just like it.I have shown it on WAF already, but here it is again for educational purposes. It is really coarse to the tactile touch,
and best of all it was from an honorable seller and was an extreme bargain too- adequately reflecting the risk of such items. Not like the high prices on WAF lately.

Michael

One similar to mine and yours was displayed on either WAF or GD some years ago by another English collector. It was displayed with an SS desk set of some sort. I corresponded with him in hopes of buying it, as he purported some Weitzel association. I found this one in 2006 on a European militaria auction. It was reasonable from my perspective and he included two DHW catalogs for a few bucks more. I have two photos of a piece similar to mine displayed on a table, one photo including a period letter opener and the other a desk set of a clear material marked with Wewelsburg that have no attribution. But just checking, I see the file creation date was 2006, so these must be pictures from the seller in Germany.

[Anthony Evans]

as far as the teppich's go. There are a few tests to deduce a period when they were made, the black light test could be used to assume that if it reflects light it is modern (post 1950's). Granted raylon was makeing its way through the community mid-40s but doubt the wall hangings were being produced then for ss. now they could have been produced in nothern countries not denouncing that idea one bit. As far as pattern goes that is going to take alot of research due to the life tree has been in alot of cultures on the european to asian continent.

I recently have added a braunhaus pattern to my collection and belive it to be post war. its a little thicker material (havent black lighted it yet, thats tomorrows goal). I might try to get pictures up or have some one posts pics of it up.