A couple of Cultural items

[Michael Fay]

For that method they need a tiny piece of wood taken directly from the object in question - by drilling a little hole in it and take it off.

I would love to see this being done with all SS MK boxes already shown here and see which examples are really authentic

Good thing you told me( back in the olden days) mine were good already and I still have your correspondence on them included with their papers.

As for testing .....
I would love to see ALL wooden "cultural objects" scientifically authenticated,
especially those sold on WAF.

[Thorsten B.]

Carver identified!

So the sculptor Walter Misselwitz made this one as a present for his nice´s family in 1942 - and proudly he signed "W. M." not on the back but on the front!

[Michael Fay]

For us Thorsten its close to useless if it just tells the age of the wood. I could go chop down the walnut tree in my garden, leave it to season a year and carve a plate, have may plate tested and told its 120 years old.

Or tear apart old antique furniture or even old floor boards out of 90 year old houses and make somthing else.

Say isnt that what got the young antique's dealer Lovejoy into trouble?

[Thorsten B.]

Michael,

Could you verify your statement?

Which wooden cultural items offered or sold on WAF are you refering to?

[Thorsten B.]

Guys,

Before you speculate about the scientific method and it´s possibilities you are invited to read what they state on their website.

This method is accepted by famous museums and other cultural institutions and collections - both official and public ones and those run by private owners.

It is a professional method for sure.

[Steve T]

Or tear apart old antique furniture or even old floor boards out of 90 year old houses and make somthing else.

Say isnt that what got the young antique's dealer Lovejoy into trouble?

Funny, that's how my kitchen table started out. When we used to live in CA the ex-wife bought a table in San Francisco, it was new, but apparently made from 100 year old pine floor boards they shipped from Scotland to S.F. Now it resides in my kitchen here back in England. So its a 100yr old antique, circa. 1995 and been over the pond and back

[Michael Fay]

Michael,

Could you verify your statement?

Which wooden cultural items offered or sold on WAF are you refering to?

What is unclear about

"As for testing .....
I would love to see ALL wooden "cultural objects" scientifically authenticated,
especially those sold on WAF" ?


By "ALL"
I mean any and all ...and if it was possible any in the past, too.
But the present is always important, as that is where we are.

[Steve T]

Guys,

Before you speculate about the scientific method and it´s possibilities you are invited to read what they state on their website.

This method is accepted by famous museums and other cultural institutions and collections - both official and public ones and those run by private owners.

It is a professional method for sure.

I'll have a better read of it over the weekend but sure those institutions accept the age they are given. No problem, entirely possible. For us the key point is to tell the date a man (or woman) put chisel to wood.

[Michael Fay]

Funny, that's how my kitchen table started out. When we used to live in CA the ex-wife bought a table in San Francisco, it was new, but apparently made from 100 year old pine floor boards they shipped from Scotland to S.F. Now it resides in my kitchen here back in England. So its a 100yr old antique, circa. 1995 and been over the pond and back

That is a very good example of how aged wood can metamorphosize and move geographically.
Food for thought, collectors.

[Thorsten B.]

One thing is for sure: by using this method cultural wooden item fakers have NO chance!

This method goes deep into the object and so by using wood which had been cut in...let´s say 1938 and fake an SS MK box out of it nowadays to let it appear as being made in 1938 as well - that has no chance!

Just because already it can detect the differences of age on the piece´s surface and the age of the piece itself - otherwise it wouldn´t be a great method and I wouldn´t have presented it. ;-)

[Steve T]

That is a very good example of how aged wood can metamorphosize and move geographically.
Food for thought, collectors.

It sure is food for thought, I'm going to have my table tested. It could be an elaborate story the ex' dreamed up to justify the money spent when half of probably went on expensive shoes. Maybe its just cheap Scandinavian pine. Michael, stop feeding us!

[Steve T]

One thing is for sure: by using this method cultural wooden item fakers have NO chance!

This method goes deep into the object and so by using wood which had been cut in...let´s say 1938 and fake an SS MK box out of it nowadays to let it appear as being made in 1938 as well - that has no chance!

Just because already it can detect the differences of age on the piece´s surface and the age of the piece itself - otherwise it wouldn´t be a great method and I wouldn´t have presented it. ;-)

Interestingly, they do seem to claim capability beyond just effectively dating the wood age, as above, detect changes in the wood due to exposure to light, environment and so on versus the protected wood below the surface, quote from the sites FAQ;

'Q. The age requirement does not make sense, because it may already old wood have been used?

A. The use of old wood can quickly, safely and easily detected by comparing the spectroscopic analysis between the outside of the object and its inner part.
The object surface is chemically altered much more by sunlight, humidity and air pollution. When counterfeits are the two analysis, depending on the age of their production, more or less identical.'

I would need to be convinced of the accuracy of the external to internal assessment of 'aging', you know, things like a piece being on display for 50 years as opposed to being in Oma's trunk in the dark and so forth. Also accuracy of measuring ageing in a relatively young piece like a TR item. Still, interesting to see a method that goes beyond just dating the wood.

Time for bed, but worth a read another time.

[Thorsten B.]

OK - more pics and pieces tomorrow.

[Michael Fay]

Michael, stop feeding us!

I agree: this dish, while served ever so cold, has proved to be fullfilling .

[Capt. R]

hi Steve - hope you have been well.

what is the book on top of the pile to the right in your photo?