A couple of Cultural items

[Minnesinger]

Thorsten.



Seems like a pretty big mistake to make year in and year out. You can enlarge the image by clicking on it.

[Jock Auld]

Again: You have never given any historical evidence to prove SS ownership of Darre ETC.

You dont quote a single historian, and you dont cite a single Third Reich document.
All you do is assert we must believe...

Poor guy,
it was so much easier for you when it was only little me eternally calling you to justice with a few others who always got burned out .
Now so many people are also calling out your lies
You must be beside yourself with wrath and self pity.

Micheal,

People just see it for what it is, no one is burned out but the fact he is still here should spell out that he is not the main issue.

The longer it goes on the more it undermines the credibility of this business.

Let it go, look past him, look for his supporters, they are the real enemy and the people you should watch your dealings with.

The rest should ask is this worth your $25 or should it be spent elsewhere or saved.

Jock

[jabnus]

Heres a similar one published in the Hamer magazine that was controlled by the SS. It has slightly different details, as Thorsten wants us to believe that should be accepted and considered normal...


I should mention that the magazine says this item is from around 1800...


Besides many items a certain someone continuously states are all SS items (SIC!) we have to keep in mind that besides new carved items also very old ones exist. Eitehr way: definately NOT SS...!

[Thorsten B.]

BUT:

The following and really relevant pic shows the Yule chest made by the DHW and is far away from being just another folkish chest.

It is - in combination with the Julleuchter and a DHW wall tapestry (of which different patterns were available and the depicted example is only one of them) - THE religious and cultural key object of the entire SS.

Nothing more and nothing less.

It´s these pieces that will certainly gather more and more worldwide collector´s attention in general now and in future - not to speak about the development of prices.

In my opinion a complete original SS Yule- and Family corner is at least as interesting and culturally important as for example a complete original DE Standarte.

But there are significant differences:

The surfaced number of De Standarten in comparison to a Yule- and Family chest is 10:1.

Do I need to say more about it??

This is what I wrote about that matter almost exactly two years ago.

Since then nothing has changed nor needs to be corrected.

With one exception:

Now I am owning two period SS Jul chests and one period SS family chest.

Happy collecting!

[jabnus]

page 188 post #2809:

Does anyone here own some original Gahr pieces? Would love to see them.

Reply:

Here - now be a good boy and enjoy what you see.

again a post later i pointed out a few red spots to show what is in my opinion definately NOT Gahr quality:



a bit later still ontopic:

The same picture of the Gahr (alike?) brooch you posted on page 188 in post #2809 , im still waiting for an answer to the questions i asked there???? Ran out of pictures to post Thorsten? Are you using old posted pictures you don't want to give answers on now as a distraction for other posts you make and don't want to give answers on? Can we see the reverse please? You are always the first top respond and react on other peoples items, may we please see more and better pictures of this brooch?

a post later this:

Gaston,

Would you like to see more pics of my Gahr brooch?

Yes?

Then I suggest you be polite and act accordingly.

By this time i wasn't surprised anymore by the downlooking style of typing. Heck around this time even a youtube link to the godsyndrome was posted...

A few posts later there was only talk of ONE Gahr brooch and the rest can be read on the previous pages....



A funny thing happened a few minutes though, i did a forumsearch and found a reverse picture of a certain brooch about 200 pages earlier in this very same thread...!!!




Marked with: B.M. Treuburg and of an impossible crude quality that is totally unworthy of any Gahr piece!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I now understand why Thorsten wouldn't want to show the reverse!



Gues that sets this fine comment in another light too:

My original Gahr brooch IS an SS cultural highlight par excellence - You seem to know nothing about Gahr as well.

And just by the way:

When will YOU start to post any SS cultural beauty here?

Why this bahavior of him is tolerated here is beyond everything i understand though.



Best regards,
Gaston

[jabnus]

For the people who DO care about factual correct evidence is here a picture on which this B.M. Treuburg brooch seems to be based on:

[Thälmannpionier]

The Reichsnährstand was via the key figure Richard Walther Darré strictly in the hands of Himmler´s SS - his personal AND ideological friend.

The fact that Darré´s boss was Hitler is no argument - even Himmler´s boss was Hitler.

Deal with it.

if thats your honest and simple logic about the RNS, one can surely see your problem to link every item with a cultural germanic background to the SS...but hey, you should know better..

soo, if for example the chairmen of AAA or the german ADAC would be a scientology member and in best case "good friend" with the scientology leaders..makes all paying AAA members automatically connected to scientology and the AAA / ADAC Fan Shop Accessories of course too.

[Thorsten B.]

Gaston,

You mix apples with oranges.

You clearly have an agenda - against me and my pieces!

But you won´t make it through with it - I can tell you.

And I can tell you that this is still an original Gahr brooch.

And you will never be able to change that fact - nor will anyone else.

[jabnus]

Since im a bit on a roll at the moment lets give this topic another try to go in a better direction. The brooch posted by Dmv in post #3122 MIGHT BE related to Norway??? I was looking for the Swanbrooch above tonight and ran into an article that described the Norway Julfest of many years pre-war (definately not wartime!). Im not making any statements this brooch has a NS/SS/Julfest connection as the evidence is waaaay too weak, but thought i'd share this picture as it has some similaritites? So, it may be a pre-war Norwegian civilian brooch. Of course more research is needed, but maybe this is helpfull in finding more information?

best regards,
Gaston

[Thorsten B.]

Actually this could also be an Arabic juwel, bought last week at a Soukh in Egypt.
No offense, Dmv... I think this interesting thread has been poisoned too long with unsubstantiated and unproven 'cultural items' of the TR era...
I cannot recognize ANY known Germanic, pseudo-Germanic or ideological symbol or sign in this (otherwise nice-looking) juwel. Perhaps the floral symbols on the edge are stylised Sonnenräder? Not very likely.
I don't pretend to be an expert, nor do I know of 'catalogues' or photobooks with period cultural items. I do know about the period symbolism however...
On a trip to Ireland, Westcoast, I saw hundreds of jewels that could be interpreted or mistaken as TR juwelry... Although they were from another culture alltogether, i.e. the Celtic culture.
In this brooch I see nothing of aforementioned symbolism, at most I can see a stylised Soera from the Coran...

Just my 2 cents,

Lucius

P.S. Gaston en dmv, hopelijk kunnen jullie deze discussie weer op het goede spoor brengen! Gaston and dmv, I hope you can get this thread back on the right track! Gaston, I must also thank you for your gentleman-like approach in this otherwise painful discussion...

Lucius nailed this whole agenda of yours damn well!

[Michael Fay]

Lucius nailed this whole agenda of yours damn well!

Dont act as if Lucius is claiming Jabnus has an agenda.

WAF member Lucius ,as any one else can read, was simply stating his own views on an item, and I might add, was thanking Gaston/Jabnus for his politeness.

[jabnus]

Gaston,

You mix apples with oranges.

You clearly have an agenda - against me and my pieces!

But you won´t make it through with it - I can tell you.

And I can tell you that this is still an original Gahr brooch.

And you will never be able to change that fact - nor will anyone else.

My dear Thorsten,


Yes i have an agenda, my daily profession is that im a historian and my agenda is trying to hunt down historical evidence. Seeing a 200+ page topic being ruined day after day by one fraudster who is only in it for the money hurts the whole collectorsscene. You alone are responsible for a very large destruction of this area of collecting. Wooden plates, wrought iron pieces, many wooden items, everything will be questionable for many years, maybe forever.

When the topic went to the subject of brooches i chimed in. I do like to learn more from Gahr brooches and after asking if anyone could show one YOU YOURSELF voluntairily posted 4 brooches and told me to shut up and be a good boy. So far i have uncovered 3 of those brooches already as being something else and the more you keep shoing of this brooch the more i am questioning this one too. For example, what is that enormous blockhinge doing there on the reverse left? Everyone has read the dozens of pages that passed since you got yourself in this mess and it is obvious you have something to hide as you won't show anything to proof your assertions. If this brooch would ever turn out to be real i'd be the first to say i was wrong, but i think you know very well that day will never come, right?

I have posted a few pages back a few of my brooches, i like this kind of items because of the story they tell and how they are connected to history. The only thing to gain here is the truth and knowledge about items like this for the whole collectorscommunity. But who am i telling...?


Gaston


ps: the post above you now state you own "only" three chests? How about all the other crap you have posted here with a hint that it is all yours? My agenda is not to talk it all down, it is about finding the truth behind the items. This is the reason this fine forum exists and why everyone logs in every day. why many people PAY to be here. Remember, every day on WAF is a good day? Do you admit you just randomly posted all the other pictures besides your three questionable chests, just from the web to look better or to distract when being asked questions like this? You sir, should again look at that godsyndrom youtube video you so downlooking posted, quite a lot to learn there.

pps: Please stop playing the victim role. You are trying it for 200+ pages but everything that happens is your own choice.

[jabnus]

Lucius nailed this whole agenda of yours damn well!

My dear Thorsten,

This is low, even for you. Over here in Holland we have an expression: When a cat is being cornered it can make strange jumps... Do you really have no better idea's?


I don't know Dmv or Lucius, and yes i admitted that Lucius remarks were spot on. I have also absolutely nothing to win how this brooch turns out. everyone can read a few pages back how this brooch is being talked about, nothing to hide for anyone. If it is bad it's bad, if it can be related to a certain country of origin that would be nice.

Just tonight i ran into this Norwegen picture of an ancient brooch and it has some similar characteristics as Dmv's. I posted this as a friendly collector who is trying to help out another collector. Is that a bad thing to do Thorsten? some people are actually after the historical truth.

If i may permit saying the following (and i hope the mods read it and recognise it is not meant in any bad way or as flaming towards you), after 200+ pages your tactic is always the same, if you are unmasked for things you stated that are wrong ou try to start a fight so that everything gets deleted. But there is no need here for that. we are all adults and doing exactly what the forum is about: talking about the hobby and it's items.


Best regards,
Gaston

[Thorsten B.]

As a historian you would be amazed about the historical background of my SS Gahr brooch!!!

Shall we both get in contact with one of the authors of the Gahr book to let them check my brooch?

How about that?

Or shall we get in contact with the part of the family of the SS-Standartenführer who bought that brooch as a present for his wife - and from whom I purchased it?

Shall we have a closer look at the personal biography of that SS-Standartenführer as a known ZAL camp commander in the Generalgouvernement?

[Dmv]

.... I have also absolutely nothing to win how this brooch turns out. everyone can read a few pages back how this brooch is being talked about, nothing to hide for anyone. If it is bad it's bad, if it can be related to a certain country of origin that would be nice.

Just tonight i ran into this Norwegen picture of an ancient brooch and it has some similar characteristics as Dmv's. I posted this as a friendly collector who is trying to help out another collector. ....

And any info is appreciated, since that is why I posted this brooch. Perhaps we'll never know what it is and perhaps we will. No agenda's...