A couple of Cultural items

[JoeW]

Here is the film of the Fegelein wedding that Thorsten saw. http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65...inrich-Himmler

The married couple are presented the bread plate and sale celler and two goblets, from which they drink a toast. You are correct Thorsten. They appear to have more curve and size than the Christening cup I posted.

Here are more clips of the wedding and reception following in the Kehlstein.
The wedding was in Salzburg.

<!-- m -->http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675 ... ch-Himmler<!-- m -->
<!-- m -->http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675 ... drive-away<!-- m -->
<!-- m -->http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675 ... olf-Hitler<!-- m -->
<!-- m -->http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675 ... -officials<!-- m -->
<!-- m -->http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675 ... n-Fegelein<!-- m -->
<!-- m -->http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675 ... agles-Nest

[Thorsten B.]

Great that you found them all!

In addition to that: since Himmler attended quite some wedding ceremonies personally - no wonder since this was one of the two key rituals of his agenda, the second was forcing the SS-families bearing children for preserving and protecting the good blood as he defined - it would have been too expensive to present silver goblets.

So Allach realized wedding goblets made of porcelain so there was a cheaper but still fine alternative - documents regarding the produced numbers haven´t surfaced yet but I believe they were made in very limited numbers and either are still in families hands or have been destroyed or just thrown away over time since their outward appearance is elegant but pure and without big decorations - and no runes, of course.
Conservative and the opposite of all kippers and curtains and so easy to underestimate - just like Himmler.

[Steve T]

Here's a 24cm plate.., no need to describe, you can see..

[Etienne B.]

Nice catch Steve.

[Steve T]

I like this Bescheinigung document for more than one reason.

I like this document for several reasons also, and they are as follows.

The document is part of an SS Personel File to a WSS Officer (former SSVT), a holder of the Germanische Leistungsrune (GLB). The GLB badge award book is contained withing the document set.

Also the document pictured is the only reference I can recall I have in the file which contains the reference to the mans 'Gottlglaubig' beliefs.As you can see the Groom is Gottglaubig and the Bride is Catholic, so we have a non-Christian marrying a Christian. Not unusual but the only document I have which shows his religion.

To my understanding Gottglaubig is completely non-Christian. A source for an explanation as to the belief from the period comes from Martin Bormann . Quote(1):

"When we National Socialists speak of a belief in God, by God we do not understand, as do naive Christians and their clerical beneficiaries, a manlike being who is sitting around in some corner of the spheres. Rather, we must open the eyes of mankind to the fact that in addition to our unimportant Earth there exist countless other bodies in the universe, many of them surrounded, like the sun, by planets and these again by smaller bodies, the moons. The force which moves all these bodies in the universe, in accordance with natural law, is what we call the Almighty or God. The assertion that this world-force can worry about the fate of every individual, every bacillus on earth, and that it can be influenced by so-called prayer or other astonishing things, is based either on a suitable dose of naivete or on outright commercial effrontery.

In contrast, we National Socialists call upon ourselves to live as naturally as possible -- that is, in keeping with the laws of life. The more thoroughly we know and attend to the laws of nature and life, the more we adhere to them, the more do we correspond to the will of the Almighty. The deeper our insight into the will of the. Almighty, the greater will be our success".

Also the document of course has a relationship to the plate it sits upon in my picture as the plate is a Hochzeitsteller or Wedding Plate of the style we see in the Fritz Weitzel book “Die Gestaltung der Feste im Jahres und Lebenslauf in der SS-Familie”

(1) Martin Bormann, Reich Leader, 1942, ‘National Socialist and Christian Concepts are Incompatible’, From Kirchliches Jahrbuch fur die evangelische Kirche in Deutschland, 1933-1944, pp. 470-472, quoted pp. 245-247, George L. Mosse, Nazi Culture: A Documentary History.

Michael, do you have different reasons to mine as to why you like it?

[ErichS]

I like this document for several reasons also, and they are as follows.

The document is part of an SS Personel File to a WSS Officer (former SSVT), a holder of the Germanische Leistungsrune (GLB). The GLB badge award book is contained withing the document set.

Also the document pictured is the only reference I can recall I have in the file which contains the reference to the mans 'Gottlglaubig' beliefs.As you can see the Groom is Gottglaubig and the Bride is Catholic, so we have a non-Christian marrying a Christian. Not unusual but the only document I have which shows his religion.

To my understanding Gottglaubig is completely non-Christian. A source for an explanation as to the belief from the period comes from Martin Bormann . Quote(1):

"When we National Socialists speak of a belief in God, by God we do not understand, as do naive Christians and their clerical beneficiaries, a manlike being who is sitting around in some corner of the spheres. Rather, we must open the eyes of mankind to the fact that in addition to our unimportant Earth there exist countless other bodies in the universe, many of them surrounded, like the sun, by planets and these again by smaller bodies, the moons. The force which moves all these bodies in the universe, in accordance with natural law, is what we call the Almighty or God. The assertion that this world-force can worry about the fate of every individual, every bacillus on earth, and that it can be influenced by so-called prayer or other astonishing things, is based either on a suitable dose of naivete or on outright commercial effrontery.

In contrast, we National Socialists call upon ourselves to live as naturally as possible -- that is, in keeping with the laws of life. The more thoroughly we know and attend to the laws of nature and life, the more we adhere to them, the more do we correspond to the will of the Almighty. The deeper our insight into the will of the. Almighty, the greater will be our success".

Also the document of course has a relationship to the plate it sits upon in my picture as the plate is a Hochzeitsteller or Wedding Plate of the style we see in the Fritz Weitzel book “Die Gestaltung der Feste im Jahres und Lebenslauf in der SS-Familie”

(1) Martin Bormann, Reich Leader, 1942, ‘National Socialist and Christian Concepts are Incompatible’, From Kirchliches Jahrbuch fur die evangelische Kirche in Deutschland, 1933-1944, pp. 470-472, quoted pp. 245-247, George L. Mosse, Nazi Culture: A Documentary History.

Michael, do you have different reasons to mine as to why you like it?

On a side note, it's very ironic that Martin Bormann Jr. was once a RC Priest.

[Kuifje69]

Dear Steve,

Great plate

I have a request: would it be possible to show the page out of Weitzel's book from the wedding plate?

Many thanks in advance!

Rene

[Steve T]

Dear Steve,

Great plate

I have a request: would it be possible to show the page out of Weitzel's book from the wedding plate?

Many thanks in advance!

Rene

Quick shot of the page in my book..

[Kuifje69]

Dear Steve,

Many thanks!

Ps perhaps you have better eyes than me, but can you read what the text is on the wedding plate?

Rene

[Michael Fay]

the same reason

[QUOTE=

Michael, do you have different reasons to mine as to why you like it?[/QUOTE]

Steve, we are in perfect agreement on the main points.
As an aside, did you know the German-Jewish born Dr.Mosse once actually saw Hitler at a rally when he was a youth? His best book in my opinion was "The Crisis of German Ideology" published in 1964 - I highly recommend it .

[Thorsten B.]

Rene,

the carved text on the wedding plate in the Weitzel book is:

Ehret die Scholle die euch ernährt.

---------------------------------------------

Steve,

a nice plate from right after 1945 due to the inscription which is:

Die Erde hat für alle Brot,

The earth has bread for everybody.

That was in opposite to the NS-intention of racial purity - the Germans (via their farmers) were judged to be worthful for receiving the bread - and nobody else.

So with the inscription of the plate the maker wants to make sure that that period of different treatment and priority was over - I think that the plate is a bread plate, of course, but a christian one - either protestantic or catholic and maybe even from pre-1945 as a little challenge within the believing families but not related to any NS intention.

[Steve T]

Rene,

the carved text on the wedding plate in the Weitzel book is:

Ehret die Scholle die euch ernährt.

---------------------------------------------

Steve,

a nice plate from right after 1945 due to the inscription which is:

Die Erde hat für alle Brot,

The earth has bread for everybody.

That was in opposite to the NS-intention of racial purity - the Germans (via their farmers) were judged to be worthful for receiving the bread - and nobody else.

So with the inscription of the plate the maker wants to make sure that that period of different treatment and priority was over - I think that the plate is a bread plate, of course, but a christian one - either protestantic or catholic and maybe even from pre-1945 as a little challenge within the believing families but not related to any NS intention.

Hi Thorsten,

Thanks for your thoughts on the plate.

I wasn't sure on this one and have debated it previously with collectors. I did think it would sit happily in either a NS or Christian household being not particularly overt in its statement either way but I see the point about 'for all' as opposed to just German.

I have another one which says pretty much the same thing. I'll post when I get a picture of it done.

Cheers,

[Steve T]

Clearly predating the TR period but a nice little print of the Wewelsburg.

[Thorsten B.]

Yes, a fine piece - published in "Das malerische und romantische Westphalen by Levin Schücking and Ferdinand Freiligrath. Roughly it´s mid-to late 19th century due to the fact that the north tower has already been hit by the struck of lightning and burnt out completely which was in 1815.

One can say that the castle is asleep while that drawing was done - since 1834 the catholic priest was allowed by the protestantic government of Prussia (the King of Prussia ruled in the former prince bishopric of Paderborn since 1802/03 interrupred by the Napoleonic intermezzo in 1807 - Königreich Westphalen ruled by Napoleon´s brother Jerome (Hieronymus) with the residence in Kassel - and then again from 1815 on) to live within the south wing of Wewelsburg castle.

The last catholic priest who lived in the castle was named Pöppelbaum and died in 1934 - so from that year on the way was free for Himmler´s wish to lease the whole castle and start his vast religious project.
The first Burghauptmann Manfred von Knobelsdorff used - after some renovation - the former rooms of the catholic priest as his rooms then until he moved into the new Wachgebäude in front of the castle and was succeeded by Siegfried Taubert from Heydrich´s office in Berlin.

[Steve T]

Yes, a fine piece - published in "Das malerische und romantische Westphalen by Levin Schücking and Ferdinand Freiligrath. Roughly it´s mid-to late 19th century due to the fact that the north tower has already been hit by the struck of lightning and burnt out completely which was in 1815.

One can say that the castle is asleep while that drawing was done - since 1834 the catholic priest was allowed by the protestantic government of Prussia (the King of Prussia ruled in the former prince bishopric of Paderborn since 1802/03 interrupred by the Napoleonic intermezzo in 1807 - Königreich Westphalen ruled by Napoleon´s brother Jerome (Hieronymus) with the residence in Kassel - and then again from 1815 on) to live within the south wing of Wewelsburg castle.

The last catholic priest who lived in the castle was named Pöppelbaum and died in 1934 - so from that year on the way was free for Himmler´s wish to lease the whole castle and start his vast religious project.
The first Burghauptmann Manfred von Knobelsdorff used - after some renovation - the former rooms of the catholic priest as his rooms then until he moved into the new Wachgebäude in front of the castle and was succeeded by Siegfried Taubert from Heydrich´s office in Berlin.

Thanks for the info.. Yes, you're spot on with mid to late 19th century, its printed 1872