Ges Gesch or RZM

[Wallace]

I have a question.

I always thought that the marking of Ges Gesch was replaced by the RZM marking.Now someone tells me that Ges Gesch was a patent protection marking and it was not replaced by the RZM marking.So did the RZM marking replaced the Ges Gesch or not??Thank you all

[Gerdan]

RZM - Reichszeugmeisterei was only a sign given by the NSDAP (party) for those objects dealing with the NSDAP.
Other objects have been protected as patent protection mit the letters "Ges. gesch." - Gesetzlich geschützt"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichszeugmeisterei


Gerdan

[stuart a.]

on certain badges like the hj honor badge you will find both gesgesch and the rzm mark

[sjl]

Generally speaking, RZM licensing made "GES. GESCH." redundant for RZM-controlled items.

"Geseztlich Geschutz" means "legally protected" - essentially our modern "TM" or "trademark" protection (not Patented, as usually reported, although the difference is only interesting to lawyers). It meant that a design was either the property of the manufacturer or used with permission under license. In this case, the NSDAP licensed the use of its symbols and designs to different manufacturers.

The RZM system was its own legal protection and licensing system, so GES. GESCH. doesn't serve any purpose for RZM'd items. The same is true of maker logos, as the RZM license number identifies the maker as well.

Still, it appears on some early and transitional RZM items, but was quickly phased out. The numbered HJ Honour Badge is an example. I regard items with both with a great deal of suspicion, particularly when GES. GESCH. appears with a RZM logo but no other RZM license number or maker name.

GES. GESCH. appears on non-RZM items, and is still in use today.

[Military]

As far as i understand, GES GESCH came in before the RZM was introduced. when the NSDAP put the RZM into place, there was no need for the GES GESCH mark. Am i correct?

[sjl]

As far as i understand, GES GESCH came in before the RZM was introduced. when the NSDAP put the RZM into place, there was no need for the GES GESCH mark. Am i correct?

No. RZM only applied to certain items. The majority of association pins and badges were outside of NSDAP licensing control. GES. GESCH. continued on many items before, during and after the RZM. I believe GES. GESCH. marking began in the late 1800s and continues today.

[Woolgar]

Generally speaking, RZM licensing made "GES. GESCH." redundant for RZM-controlled items.

"Geseztlich Geschutz" means "legally protected" - essentially our modern "TM" or "trademark" protection (not Patented, as usually reported, although the difference is only interesting to lawyers). It meant that a design was either the property of the manufacturer or used with permission under license. In this case, the NSDAP licensed the use of its symbols and designs to different manufacturers.

The RZM system was its own legal protection and licensing system, so GES. GESCH. doesn't serve any purpose for RZM'd items. The same is true of maker logos, as the RZM license number identifies the maker as well.

Still, it appears on some early and transitional RZM items, but was quickly phased out. The numbered HJ Honour Badge is an example. I regard items with both with a great deal of suspicion, particularly when GES. GESCH. appears with a RZM logo but no other RZM license number or maker name.

GES. GESCH. appears on non-RZM items, and is still in use today.

This is great information Stephen, Thank you

Nick

[Wallace]

Generally speaking, RZM licensing made "GES. GESCH." redundant for RZM-controlled items.

"Geseztlich Geschutz" means "legally protected" - essentially our modern "TM" or "trademark" protection (not Patented, as usually reported, although the difference is only interesting to lawyers). It meant that a design was either the property of the manufacturer or used with permission under license. In this case, the NSDAP licensed the use of its symbols and designs to different manufacturers.

The RZM system was its own legal protection and licensing system, so GES. GESCH. doesn't serve any purpose for RZM'd items. The same is true of maker logos, as the RZM license number identifies the maker as well.

Still, it appears on some early and transitional RZM items, but was quickly phased out. The numbered HJ Honour Badge is an example. I regard items with both with a great deal of suspicion, particularly when GES. GESCH. appears with a RZM logo but no other RZM license number or maker name.

GES. GESCH. appears on non-RZM items, and is still in use today.

Thank you very much for the clarification

[sgstandard]

Ges.Gesch

The early, first style SS totenkopf cap badge made by Steinhauer & Luck (St&L) has both an RZM logo and Ges.Gesch. It is the only early skull badge I've ever seen marked. Most are plain.

[juoneen]

In english: pat. pend. just shows it has a copyrighted patent for design. (if someone steals the exact design they can face prosecution for the theft..
Cannot say it is not permitted to use both or not on any certain badge.

Just because its used on some fake badges, doesnt mean they didnt copy a legitimate badge marked that way.
My theory is: they made most fakes off of originals , and marked them as the badges they faked were marked.

Like some marks are stamped in, others raised....wich is real, it depends on the specific badge, period of manufacture,etc... and i dont believe it can as an issue......just be cut and dried across the board. There was much done willy nilly until things were standardized ...like how party badges marks were done...some were put on backwards by dislexic die workers...and with the cost for dies, production runs went on anyway. Just my take on the issue.