3 Deutscher Orden in one lot!!!!! Rarest of The Rare

[sam steele]

Deutscher Orden

My, this is a fascinating thread!

I have my cased (Souval) in front of me....the satin interior of the lid is red, when it should, I believe, be white (although as I said, there seems to be some fading to the red in areas). The colour of the flocked base is quite crimson - my picture shows a lousy red.

My Order itself differs from those original pics so far shown in the following areas:

1. the "P" in "DAP" is a slightly different shape, and yes, the "A" in "DAP" is not centred to the "x" in the oakleaves ring
2. the Swastika touches the inner circle on mine, whereas it is surrounded completely by the white background on the original
3. there are no horizontal emanating "rays" beneath the wreath circle on mine, but show on the original
4. the eagle heads seem a tad small on my Order
5. the oak leaves suspension where it meets the laurel leaves is not voided as I've seen on my class of Order
6. I have a nice Knights Cross ribbon, but it should be a wider version of the Blood Order ribbon
7. my Order has "935" on the suspender, but no Deumer marking

Having said all of this, and not wanting to detract from the beauty (or future saleability) of my order......I find it difficult to see how the Deumer dies were utilised by Souval to make this piece. The only suggestion that I can make, is that perhaps there was more than one die, as evidenced from the differing Orders to Todt and Heydrich. Perhaps Souval had "a" die set from Deumer, but not one that matches any photos that I have seen thus far.

I still believe, however, that my order was made during the war, or very shortly thereafter - certainly not in the 1960's or 1970's.

I hope that this helps.

Cheers,

Bill

[WARLORD]

Deumer were still in bussiness until reasontly. They did not sell theirdies to Souval. The Souval pieces are not from the Deumer dies.

[Leroy]

Deumer were still in bussiness until reasontly. They did not sell theirdies to Souval. The Souval pieces are not from the Deumer dies.

So that part of Post #55 is incorrect?

[ErichS]

Whatever the quality if its post war then its fake and only valuable as a trinket,to sell for thousands is crazy.I would not go higher than $100 !

I'm with Jon on this one. I understand that a lot of older quality reproductions are collectible in their right but I would not want one in my collection. JMO.

[sjl]

Unless there are other dies, my understanding is that the centrepiece was a Fuess-style Gold Party Badge (only 19mm wide and not 24mm), and had the same rays under the laurel (not oak) leaves, and a "floating" swastika. It should not look like the small Deschler version.

[Jon. H]

According to 'INFO' magazine of December 1988, the type of oakleaves and swords shown here was the type presented to Reichsarbeitsfuehrer Hierl.

I think this particular set came from Hermann Historica.

Yes it did!

[Stan]

Deutscher Orden

Unless there are other dies, my understanding is that the centrepiece was a Fuess-style Gold Party Badge (only 19mm wide and not 24mm), and had the same rays under the laurel (not oak) leaves, and a "floating" swastika. It should not look like the small Deschler version.

Very interesting observation Stephen. I have learnt something today!

Stan

[Jon. H]

This is the Souval Made verson of the breast cross.

Many thanks to Bob Hritz for telling me this!!



DSC02169.jpg

[Jon. H]

[ATTACH]1337040[/ATTACH]

[Jon. H]

[ATTACH]1337041[/ATTACH]

[Jon. H]

[ATTACH]1337043[/ATTACH]

[Jon. H]

[ATTACH]1337045[/ATTACH]

[Gary Symonds]

Gentlemen,I'm a bit confused. The implication as to this third class Gerrman Order is that if it was made by Souval, is this a postwar reproduction? We all know that Souval was a licensed badge maker during the third reich and could have been contracted to produce the German Order. One of the tales repeated over and over again in the reference books is that Deumer was the ONLY maker of the German Order. Where is the proof of that? There is not a shread of evidence to support that. If any collector has the proof that Deumer had a lock, please provide the evidence. This particular third class cross is of the highest quality and up to wartime standards, just by looking at the pictures. It must be kept in mind that this is NSDAP Order. The Party's "socialism" was thin. However, rarely if ever did the Party give a lock to a particular maker. The Party trully tried to spread the work around. Finally, this identical pin back, third class German Order is shown at page 417 of Andre Husken's 1999 Katalog of Orders. I seriously doubt that if this was a postwar example that he would have depicted it in his Katalog. I invite comments!

[Jon. H]

Do you have that catalog? If you do can you please show a photo?

[WARLORD]

These pieces were indeed only produced by the one producure. They themself confirmed this. The third class as shown is a Souval copy made after the war. The quality is not that of the original, as is the neck order shown.